Ancestry of Elizabeth Whetenhall, Wife of Notley Rozer

[Polly]

I'm not sure I'm posting this properly, perhaps it's too long. But, it would be great to have corrections....if I'm doing this post inappropriately, I apologize and would like guidance. Thanks.

Ancestors of Elizabeth WHETENHALL

GENERATION 1

1. Elizabeth WHETENHALL, daughter of Henry WHETENHALL and Letitia TICHBORNE,
born Hextall Court, East Peckham, Kent. Married Notley ROZER, son of Benjamin ROZER and Anne SEWALL c. 1720 in Maryland. Died bet 10 Oct 1732-3 May 1733, Maryland. (1,2,3,4,5)

GENERATION 2

2. Henry WHETENHALL, son of Thomas WHETENHALL and Anne SAUNDERS, born East Peckham, Kent (Hextall Court). Married Letitia TICHBORNE, 1691. (6,7)

3. Letitia TICHBORNE, daughter of Sir Henry TICHBORNE and Mary ARUNDELL, born Tichborne, Hampshire. (7)

GENERATION 3

4. Thomas WHETENHALL, son of Thomas WHETENHALL and Mary PHILLIPS, born 16 Feb 1626, East Peckham, Kent, England (Hextall Court). Died aft 21 Nov 1692. Married Anne SAUNDERS, 1666. (1,8)

5. Anne SAUNDERS, daughter of Francis SAUNDERS and Catherine JERNINGHAM, born 1637, Shankton, Leicestershire. Died 1689, East Peckham, Kent. (6)

6. Sir Henry TICHBORNE, son of Sir Richard TICHBORNE and Susan WALLER,born on or sh bef 24 May 1624, Tichborne, Hampshire. Died Apr 1689. Married Mary ARUNDELL. (9,10,11)

7. Mary ARUNDELL, daughter of William ARUNDELL and Mary BROWNE, born Horningsham, Wiltshire. Died 24 Dec 1698. (9,11)

GENERATION 4

8. Thomas WHETENHALL, son of Sir Henry WHETENHALL and Eleanor WYLDE, born East Peckham, Kent (Hextall Court). Died bet 4 Aug 1630-17 Feb 1630/31, East Peckham, Kent. Married Mary PHILLIPS bef 1622. (8,12,13)

9. Mary PHILLIPS, daughter of George PHILLIPS, born Tenterden, Kent. Died bet 1633-1634, East Peckham, Kent. (8)

10. Francis SAUNDERS, born 1622, Shankton, Leicestershire. Married Catherine JERNINGHAM. (14)

11. Catherine JERNINGHAM, daughter of John JERNINGHAM and Anne Mary MOORE, born 1622, Costessey, Norfolk. (14)

12. Sir Richard TICHBORNE, son of Sir Benjamin TICHBORNE and Amphillis WESTON, born
c. 1578, Tichborne, Hampshire. Died Apr 1652. Married Susan WALLER in or bef 1616. (9)

13. Susan WALLER, daughter of William WALLER and - SOMESTER, born 1597,
Old Stoke, near Stoke Charity, Hampshire. Died aft 1657. (9)

14. William ARUNDELL, son of Thomas ARUNDELL and Mary WRIOTHESLEY, born about 1590, Horningsham, Wiltshire. Died 15 May 1653. Married Mary BROWNE. (9,15)

15. Mary BROWNE, daughter of Anthony Maria BROWNE and Jane SACKVILLE, born c. 1593, Cowdray Park, Sussex. Died 13 Nov 1692. (9,15,16)

GENERATION 5

16. Sir Henry WHETENHALL, son of Thomas WHETENHALL and Dorothy FANE, born c. 1564, East Peckham, Kent, England (Hexstall Court). Died 1625. Married Eleanor WYLDE. (8,11)

17. Eleanor WYLDE, daughter of Thomas WYLDE and Elizabeth STOUGHTON. Died bef May 1607. (8)

18. George PHILLIPS, born Tenterden, Kent. (8)

22. John JERNINGHAM, son of Sir Henry JERNINGHAM and Eleanor THROCKMORTON, born c. 1598, Costessey, Norfolk. Died 1636. Married Anne Mary MOORE in 1612. (1,8,14)

23. Anne Mary MOORE, daughter of Sir Francis MOORE and Anne TWITTY, born 1592, Fawley, Berkshire. (1,8,14)

24. Sir Benjamin TICHBORNE, son of Nicholas TICHBORNE and Elizabeth RYTHE, born c. 1540, Tichborne, Hampshire. Died 6 Sep 1629. Married Amphillis WESTON c. 17 May 1571. (8)

25. Amphillis WESTON, daughter of Richard WESTON and Wilburga CATESBY, born Skreens, in Roxwell, Essex. Died aft 6 Sep 1629. (8)

26. William WALLER, born in Old Stoke, near Stoke Charity, Hampshire. Married - SOMESTER. (8)

27. - SOMESTER.(8)

28. Thomas ARUNDELL, son of Sir Matthew ARUNDELL and Margaret WILLOUGHBY, born
about 1560, Wardour Castle, Ansty, Wiltshire. Died 7 Nov 1639, Ansty, Wiltshire (Wardour Castle). Married Mary WRIOTHESLEY about 19 Jun 1585, London. (17,18,19)

29. Mary WRIOTHESLEY, daughter of Henry WRIOTHESLEY and Mary BROWNE. Died sh bef 27 Jun 1607. (17,18,19)

30. Anthony Maria BROWNE, son of Anthony BROWNE and Mary DORMER, born 1 Feb 1573/74, Midhurst, Sussex (Cowdray Park House). Died 23 Oct 1629, Midhurst, Sussex. Married Jane SACKVILLE 3 Feb 1591/92. (14,17)

31. Jane SACKVILLE, daughter of Thomas SACKVILLE and Cecily BAKER, born Buckhurst Park, Withyham, Sussex. Died 8 Jan 1651/52. (17)

GENERATION 6

32. Thomas WHETENHALL, son of George WHETENHALL and Alice BERKELEY, born East Peckham, Kent, England (Hextall Court). Died in 1607, East Peckham, Kent. Married Dorothy FANE. (1,8)

33. Dorothy FANE, daughter of John FANE and Joan HAWTE, born Tunbridge, Kent. Died 1577. (1,8)

34. Thomas WYLDE. Married Elizabeth STOUGHTON.

35. Elizabeth STOUGHTON, daughter of Thomas STOUGHTON, born in Ash, Kent. (20)

44. Sir Henry JERNINGHAM, son of Henry JERNINGHAM and Eleanor DACRE, born in Costessey, Norfolk. Died 1 Sep 1646. Married Eleanor THROCKMORTON, 31 Jan 1591/92. (1,8)

45. Eleanor THROCKMORTON, daughter of Thomas THROCKMORTON and Margaret WHORWOOD, born about 1572, Coughton, Warwickshire. Died bef 2 Dec 1648. (1,8,21)

46. Sir Francis MOORE, born in Fawley, Berkshire. Married Anne TWITTY. (1,8)

47. Anne TWITTY. (1)

48. Nicholas TICHBORNE, son of Nicholas TICHBORNE and Anne WHITE, born bef 1508, Tichborne, Hampshire. Died 23 May 1555, Roydon, Essex. Married Elizabeth RYTHE aft 1538. (18,19,22,23)

49. Elizabeth RYTHE, daughter of William RYTHE and Margery COWDRAY, born 1514, Totford, in Northington, Hampshire. Died 1576. (18,19,22)

50. Richard WESTON, son of John WESTON, born in 1510, Skreens, in Roxwell,
Essex. Died 6 Jul 1572. Married Wilburga CATESBY, c. 1549. (8,16,24)

51. Wilburga CATESBY, daughter of Anthony CATESBY and Wilburga PIGOTT, born Seaton, Rutland. Died 1553. (8)

56. Sir Matthew ARUNDELL, son of Sir Thomas ARUNDELL and Margaret HOWARD, born bet 1532-1534, Wardour Castle, Ansty, Wiltshire. Died 24 Dec 1598. Married Margaret WILLOUGHBY aft 20 Dec 1559. (15,18,19)

57. Margaret WILLOUGHBY, daughter of Sir Henry WILLOUGHBY and Anne GREY, born Wollaton, Nottinghamshire. (18,19)

58. Henry WRIOTHESLEY, son of Thomas WRIOTHESLEY and Jane CHENEY, born sh bef 24 Apr 1545. Died 4 Oct 1581, Itchel, Hampshire. Married Mary BROWN 19 Feb 1565, in London at the house of her father, Viscount Montague. (17,18)

59. Mary BROWNE, daughter of Anthony BROWNE and Jane RADCLIFFE, born in or bef 1551, Midhurst, Sussex (Cowdray Park House). Died Nov 1607. (17,18)

60. Anthony BROWNE, son of Anthony BROWNE and Jane RADCLIFFE, born 22 Jul 1552, Midhurst, Sussex (Cowdray Park House, Cowdray Park). Died 29 Jun 1592, Midhurst, Sussex (Riverbank House, Cowdray Park). Married Mary DORMER bef 1573. (14,17,18)

61. Mary DORMER, daughter of Sir William DORMER and Dorothy CATESBY, born Eythorpe and Wing, Buckinghamshire. Died bet 20 Jul-23 Nov 1637. (17,18,25)

62. Thomas SACKVILLE, son of Sir Richard SACKVILLE and Winifred BRUGGE, born bet 1527-1536, Buckhurst Park, in Withyham, Sussex. Died 19 Apr 1608. Married Cecily BAKER in 1555. (12,17,26,27)

63. Cecily BAKER, daughter of Sir John BAKER and Elizabeth DINLEY, born about 1535, Sissinghurst, Kent. Died 01 Oct 1615. (17)
Sources

1 Barnes, Robert W., British Roots of Maryland Families, 1999.
2 Maryland, Wills and Probate Records, 1604-1878, www.ancestry.com.
3 Maryland, Births and Christenings Index, 1662-1911, www.ancestry.com.
4 Dorman, John Frederick, Adventurers of Purse and Person, Vol. 1, 2004.
5 Maryland, Wills and Probate Records, 1604-1878, www.ancestry.com.
6 Global, Gravestone Photograph Index, 1265-2014, www.ancestry.com.
7 Who Were the Nuns? - A Prosopographical Study of the English Convents in Exile,
1600-1800, https://wwtn.history.qmul.ac.uk/.
8 The Downside Review, Vol. XV, 1896).
9 G. E. Cokayne, The Complete Baronetage, 1903).
10 England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975, www.ancestry.com.
11 England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973, www.ancestry.com.
12 Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900, www.ancestry.com.
13 England&Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858, www.ancestry.com.
14 U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900, www.ancestry.com.
15 The Genealogy of the Arundell Family.
16 Stirnet Genealogy.
17 G. E. Cokayne, The Complete Peerage, 2000
18 Richardson, Douglas, Plantagenet Ancestry, 2004.
19 Richardson, Douglas, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2005.
20 Visitation of Kent, 1619.
21 Castelli, Jorge H., Tudor Place.
22 UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current, www.ancestry.com
23 The History of Parliament, http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org, 1509-1558.
24 Victoria County History of Essex.
25 Henry Browne, Montague Peerage: Case of Henry Browne, Esq., 1851,
books.google.com/books
26 Dictionary of National Biography, Volumes 1-20, 22, www.ancestry.com
27 Chalmers'General Biographical Dictionary, 1812, www.ancestry.com

[Polly]

Post by Polly
I'm not sure I'm posting this properly, perhaps it's too long. But, it would be great to have corrections....if I'm doing this post inappropriately, I apologize and would like guidance. Thanks.
Ancestors of Elizabeth WHETENHALL

I'm hopeful that the experts out there will take a close look at this because if it's accurate then Elizabeth Wehetenhall is a GARD...so specialist information I don't have could really help either invalidate this or confirm it.....

[Nathan Murphy]

Post by Polly
Ancestors of Elizabeth WHETENHALL
GENERATION 1
1. Elizabeth WHETENHALL, daughter of Henry WHETENHALL and Letitia TICHBORNE,
born Hextall Court, East Peckham, Kent. Married Notley ROZER, son of Benjamin ROZER and Anne SEWALL c. 1720 in Maryland. Died bet 10 Oct 1732-3 May 1733, Maryland. (1,2,3,4,5)
GENERATION 2
2. Henry WHETENHALL, son of Thomas WHETENHALL and Anne SAUNDERS, born East Peckham, Kent (Hextall Court). Married Letitia TICHBORNE, 1691. (6,7)
3. Letitia TICHBORNE, daughter of Sir Henry TICHBORNE and Mary ARUNDELL, born Tichborne, Hampshire. (7)
Sources
1 Barnes, Robert W., British Roots of Maryland Families, 1999.
2 Maryland, Wills and Probate Records, 1604-1878, www.ancestry.com.
3 Maryland, Births and Christenings Index, 1662-1911, www.ancestry.com.
4 Dorman, John Frederick, Adventurers of Purse and Person, Vol. 1, 2004.
5 Maryland, Wills and Probate Records, 1604-1878, www.ancestry.com.

Hi Polly,

Could I ask for your source(s) regarding the parentage of Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rozer? I reviewed Barnes and Dorman. Barnes lists Elizabeth and her brother, Dr. John Whetenhall of St. Mary's Co., MD, d.s.p., as children of Edward Whetenhall (1663-1733), and grandchildren of Edward Whetenhall (d. 1719), Bishop of Kilmore and Ardagh. Dorman's focus is on Notley Rozer's first wife Jane Digges and he doesn't discuss the Whetenhalls.

Barnes cites this 1724/5 letter for immigrant Elizabeth's origin: https://archive.org/stream/marylandhistoric09brow#page/127/mode/1up

Annotations to the letter describe Elizabeth as daughter of Edward Whetenhall and granddaughter of Bishop Whetenhall. This can be easily disproven. Bishop Edward Wetenhall and his son Edward Wetenhall M.D. are buried at Westminster Abbey. The Marylanders are not mentioned on the younger Edward's monument in his list of children, or in his will.

Westminster Abbey monument: http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our-history/people/edward-wetenhall
Prerogative Court of Canterbury will, Price (1733) f. 361: http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_311170-00125/52276

Nathan

[Polly]

Post by Nathan Murphy

Post by Polly
Ancestors of Elizabeth WHETENHALL
GENERATION 1
1. Elizabeth WHETENHALL, daughter of Henry WHETENHALL and Letitia TICHBORNE,
born Hextall Court, East Peckham, Kent. Married Notley ROZER, son of Benjamin ROZER and Anne SEWALL c. 1720 in Maryland. Died bet 10 Oct 1732-3 May 1733, Maryland. (1,2,3,4,5)
GENERATION 2
2. Henry WHETENHALL, son of Thomas WHETENHALL and Anne SAUNDERS, born East Peckham, Kent (Hextall Court). Married Letitia TICHBORNE, 1691. (6,7)
3. Letitia TICHBORNE, daughter of Sir Henry TICHBORNE and Mary ARUNDELL, born Tichborne, Hampshire. (7)
Sources
1 Barnes, Robert W., British Roots of Maryland Families, 1999.
2 Maryland, Wills and Probate Records, 1604-1878, www.ancestry.com.
3 Maryland, Births and Christenings Index, 1662-1911, www.ancestry.com.
4 Dorman, John Frederick, Adventurers of Purse and Person, Vol. 1, 2004.
5 Maryland, Wills and Probate Records, 1604-1878, www.ancestry.com.

Hi Polly,
Could I ask for your source(s) regarding the parentage of Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rozer? I reviewed Barnes and Dorman. Barnes lists Elizabeth and her brother, Dr. John Whetenhall of St. Mary's Co., MD, d.s.p., as children of Edward Whetenhall (1663-1733), and grandchildren of Edward Whetenhall (d. 1719), Bishop of Kilmore and Ardagh. Dorman's focus is on Notley Rozer's first wife Jane Digges and he doesn't discuss the Whetenhalls.
Barnes cites this 1724/5 letter for immigrant Elizabeth's origin: https://archive.org/stream/marylandhistoric09brow#page/127/mode/1up
Annotations to the letter describe Elizabeth as daughter of Edward Whetenhall and granddaughter of Bishop Whetenhall. This can be easily disproven. Bishop Edward Wetenhall and his son Edward Wetenhall M.D. are buried at Westminster Abbey. The Marylanders are not mentioned on the younger Edward's monument in his list of children, or in his will.
Westminster Abbey monument: http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our-history/people/edward-wetenhall
Prerogative Court of Canterbury will, Price (1733) f. 361: http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_311170-00125/52276
Nathan

Hi, Nathan, Elizabeth's will names her brother Dr. John Whetenhall and another brother apparently was Henry Whetenhall, a Jesuit. Also there was a sister who was a nun at Brussels. The Whetenhalls of East Peckham were a recusant family and so clearly not the same Whetenhall family as that of the Edwards--staunch Protestants. I wrote to Mr. Barnes some years ago questioning his identification of the Maryland Whetenhalls and he quickly found information (IIRC Catholic Record Office documents) that correctly identified Elizabeth and John as children of Henry and Lettice Tichborne...now, of course, I was careless and it was several computers ago...I can't find that information right now. Sorry! Amateur hour here! I was using Barnes 1999 as a citation for Elizabeth having married Notley Rozer and having a brother John...I just ordered Mr. Barnes's 2010 update, so perhaps it will include the documentation. If anyone has the 2010 book, maybe they'll check? Polly

[Polly]

Post by Polly

Post by Nathan Murphy

Post by Polly
Ancestors of Elizabeth WHETENHALL
GENERATION 1
1. Elizabeth WHETENHALL, daughter of Henry WHETENHALL and Letitia TICHBORNE,
born Hextall Court, East Peckham, Kent. Married Notley ROZER, son of Benjamin ROZER and Anne SEWALL c. 1720 in Maryland. Died bet 10 Oct 1732-3 May 1733, Maryland. (1,2,3,4,5)
GENERATION 2
2. Henry WHETENHALL, son of Thomas WHETENHALL and Anne SAUNDERS, born East Peckham, Kent (Hextall Court). Married Letitia TICHBORNE, 1691. (6,7)
3. Letitia TICHBORNE, daughter of Sir Henry TICHBORNE and Mary ARUNDELL, born Tichborne, Hampshire. (7)
Sources
1 Barnes, Robert W., British Roots of Maryland Families, 1999.
2 Maryland, Wills and Probate Records, 1604-1878, www.ancestry.com.
3 Maryland, Births and Christenings Index, 1662-1911, www.ancestry.com.
4 Dorman, John Frederick, Adventurers of Purse and Person, Vol. 1, 2004.
5 Maryland, Wills and Probate Records, 1604-1878, www.ancestry.com.

Hi Polly,
Could I ask for your source(s) regarding the parentage of Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rozer? I reviewed Barnes and Dorman. Barnes lists Elizabeth and her brother, Dr. John Whetenhall of St. Mary's Co., MD, d.s.p., as children of Edward Whetenhall (1663-1733), and grandchildren of Edward Whetenhall (d. 1719), Bishop of Kilmore and Ardagh. Dorman's focus is on Notley Rozer's first wife Jane Digges and he doesn't discuss the Whetenhalls.
Barnes cites this 1724/5 letter for immigrant Elizabeth's origin: https://archive.org/stream/marylandhistoric09brow#page/127/mode/1up
Annotations to the letter describe Elizabeth as daughter of Edward Whetenhall and granddaughter of Bishop Whetenhall. This can be easily disproven. Bishop Edward Wetenhall and his son Edward Wetenhall M.D. are buried at Westminster Abbey. The Marylanders are not mentioned on the younger Edward's monument in his list of children, or in his will.
Westminster Abbey monument: http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our-history/people/edward-wetenhall
Prerogative Court of Canterbury will, Price (1733) f. 361: http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_311170-00125/52276
Nathan

Hi, Nathan, Elizabeth's will names her brother Dr. John Whetenhall and another brother apparently was Henry Whetenhall, a Jesuit. Also there was a sister who was a nun at Brussels. The Whetenhalls of East Peckham were a recusant family and so clearly not the same Whetenhall family as that of the Edwards--staunch Protestants. I wrote to Mr. Barnes some years ago questioning his identification of the Maryland Whetenhalls and he quickly found information (IIRC Catholic Record Office documents) that correctly identified Elizabeth and John as children of Henry and Lettice Tichborne...now, of course, I was careless and it was several computers ago...I can't find that information right now. Sorry! Amateur hour here! I was using Barnes 1999 as a citation for Elizabeth having married Notley Rozer and having a brother John...I just ordered Mr. Barnes's 2010 update, so perhaps it will include the documentation. If anyone has the 2010 book, maybe they'll check? Polly

[Nathan Murphy]

Post by Polly
Hi, Nathan, Elizabeth's will names her brother Dr. John Whetenhall and another brother apparently was Henry Whetenhall, a Jesuit. Also there was a sister who was a nun at Brussels. The Whetenhalls of East Peckham were a recusant family and so clearly not the same Whetenhall family as that of the Edwards--staunch Protestants. I wrote to Mr. Barnes some years ago questioning his identification of the Maryland Whetenhalls and he quickly found information (IIRC Catholic Record Office documents) that correctly identified Elizabeth and John as children of Henry and Lettice Tichborne...now, of course, I was careless and it was several computers ago...I can't find that information right now. Sorry! Amateur hour here! I was using Barnes 1999 as a citation for Elizabeth having married Notley Rozer and having a brother John...I just ordered Mr. Barnes's 2010 update, so perhaps it will include the documentation. If anyone has the 2010 book, maybe they'll check? Polly

I investigated the family of Henry Whetenhall, Esquire, of East Peckham, Kent, theoretical father to Dr. John Whetenhall and Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rozer of Maryland. What follows is a timeline with sources about Henry, his documentable children, and then the Marylanders. The most difficult generation for Americans seeking to connect to royal lines is usually the immigrant - identifying his or her birthplace and parentage. I have found no direct evidence stating John and Elizabeth were Henry’s children. Because they were Catholic in England, they left few records behind. Henry’s son, Father Henry Whetenhall, S.J., was present when Elizabeth wrote her will in Maryland. It is certainly possible Henry Whetenhall, Esquire, was John and Elizabeth’s father. But can better evidence be produced?

An important discovery is that Marylander Notley Rozer, who later married Elizabeth Whetenhall, attended St. Omers College in France as a young man. Father Henry Whetenhall, S.J. also attended St. Omers College as a young man. The dates of their attendances, Notley (c1694-c1697) and Henry (?-c1713) are not entirely clear. There may not have been overlap for them to meet one another, but they certainly knew each other in Maryland. Henry witnessed the Prince George’s County, Maryland wills of Notley Rozer (1727) and Notley’s widow Elizabeth (1732).


1. HENRY WHETENHALL, ESQUIRE


Probably born late 1660s or early 1670s.


Son of Thomas and Anne (Saunders) Whetenhall.
Source: Anne Anglesye Whetenhall grave monument, East Peckham, Kent, England; http://gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=288071&scrwidth=1600


1692
‘Whetenhall and Tichborne.
DEED POLL dated 21 November 1692, of Thomas Whetenhall of
East Peckham, co. Kent, esquire.
Thomas Whetenhall makes a charge of ^1200 in favour of his three younger children, Thomas, Catherine and Elizabeth Whetenhall, as empowered by indentures made 22 December 1691, between (1) Thomas Whetenhall and his son and heir apparent, Henry Whetenhall, (2) Dame Mary Tichborne, widow of Sir Henry Tichborne of co. Hants, baronet, and her daughter Letitia Tichborne, (3) the Hon ble Henry Arundel of Wardour Castle and Sir Henry Bedingfield of
Oxburgh, co. Norfolk, baronet, and (4) Richard Tasbourgh of Flixon, co. Suffolk, esquire, and Richard Caryll of West Grinsted, co. Sussex, esquire, made previous to the marriage of Henry Whetenhall with Letitia Tichborne.
Signature of Thomas Whetenhall.
Witnesses : Dorothy Cooper, Gane Sheppard, John Parkinson.’
Source: Crisp, Frederick Arthur. “Marriage Settlements,” Fragmenta Genealogica 11 (1906):253.
https://archive.org/stream/fragmentagenealo11cris#page/253/mode/1up


1698
‘The court-lodge with the demesnes of the manor of East Peckham
‘… Sir Anthony Weldon, in the latter end of the reign of king James I. passed them away by sale to George Whetenhall, esq. after whose death they came by descent into the possession of Thomas Whetenhall, esq. of Hextalls-court, in this parish, whose descendant, Henry Whetenhall, esq. alienated this estate to Sir William Twysden, bart. of Roydon-hall, whose descendant, Sir William Jarvis Twisden, bart. is the present possessor of it.’


Eastmere manor, East Peckham parish
‘… in the 6th year of king Henry VI. to Richard Ruyton, who two years afterwards conveyed it by sale to William Hextall, of Hextalls-court, in this parish, and he dying without issue male, by Margaret, his daughter and heir, it was carried in marriage to William Whetenhall, esq. whose direct descendant, Henry Whetenhall, esq. passed it away by sale to Sir William Twysden, bart. of Roydon-hall, whose grandson, Sir William Jarvis Twysden, bart. of Roydonhall, is the present possessor of it.’


Source: Edward Hasted, 'Parishes: East Peckham', in The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent: Volume 5 (Canterbury, 1798), pp. 91-106. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-kent/vol5/pp91-106 [accessed 31 October 2016].


1698
‘The family continued to live at Peckham into the eighteenth century, and there were among the Twysden archives in the Muniment Room at Roydon deeds relating to a mortgage raised on Peckham Place and its appurtenances in 1698 by Thomas and Henry Whetenhall for £1,200, to which contract Sir Henry Bedingfield is also a party. There are many other documents referring to contracts for sale of lands in East Peckham by the Whetenhalls to the Twysdens in the early part of the eighteenth century, including the estate of Court Lodge in 1715 for £2,545.’ Footnotes: Lots 112 and 224 in Messrs. Sotheby Wilkinson’s catalogue of the sale, April 1892.
Source: A. R. Cook, A Manor Through Four Centuries (Oxford University Press, 1938), p. 40. https://archive.org/stream/moanorthroughfou006197mbp#page/n63/mode/1up
1715
‘Henry Whetenhall, of East Peckham, Esq. - Freehold estate, his son Thomas acting with him - £243 6s. 6d.’ [with annotations]
Source: Edgar E. Estcourt and John Orlebar Payne, eds., The English Catholic Nonjurors of 1715 (London and New York, 1885), p. 85. https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE81217


MS. at Brussels, No. 3978 states Fr. Henry Whetenhall and Thomas Whetenhall, Esq., who died in 1768, last male heir of the family, and their sister Catherine, Abbess of Brussels, O.S.B. were grandchildren of Thomas Whetenhall aka Thomas Stanley (b. 1627 (aged 19 in 1646).
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 6 (London, 1880), 365; https://books.google.com/books?id=u_8UAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA365&lpg=PA365#v=onepage&q&f=false


‘Lettice [Tichborne] m. in 1691, to Henry Whettenhall, Esq. of East Peckham, Kent.’
Source: Bernard Burke, Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerage and Baronetage of the British Empire (20th ed., London, 1858), 995; https://books.google.com/books?id=rDdPAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA995&lpg=PA995


‘Whetenhall, Henry, of Peckham Place, co. Kent, was the son of Thomas Whetenhall, of the same, who was thrice married: first, to Lady Catherine Talbot, daughter of John, 10th Earl of Shrewsbury, who died in 1650, the first year of her marriage; secondly, to Elizabeth, eldest daughter of Sir Henry Bedingfeld, 1st Bart., a lady celebrated for her beauty; and, thirdly, to Anne, daughter of Henry Sandres, of Shankton, co. Leicester. In 1691 Henry married Lettice, daughter of Sir Henry Tichborne, 3rd Bart., and had issue a son, Thomas, who died Jan. 13, 1768, in the chaplain’s house adjoining the English Benedictine Convent at Brussels, of which his sister, Dame Catherine Maura, was abbess when he first went there in 1761, and died in 1762; another son, Fr. Henry Whetenhall, S.J., born 1694, died 1745; and another daughter, Dame Mary Placida, O.S.B., was professed at Pontoise in 1718.’
Source: Joseph Gillow and Richard Trappes-Lomax, eds., The Diary of the ‘Blue Nuns’ or Order of the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady, at Paris, 1658-1810, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 8 (London, 1910), 433; https://archive.org/stream/diaryofbluenun00unknuoft#page/433/mode/1up


Negative searches for Henry Whetenhall


No marriage found for Henry Whetenhall to Lettice Tichborn on Ancestry, FamilySearch, findmypast, or FreeReg


No wills for Henry or Lettice proved in Prerogative Court of Canterbury or Archdeaconry Court of Canterbury


Will of Sir Henry Joseph Tichborne Baronett, 1743, lists no Whetenhall kin.
Source: PCC 378 Boycott (1743) f. 366; http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_311597-00413/580315


Henry and Lettice (Tichborn) Whetenhall had issue: (A) Thomas, (B) James, (C) George, (D) Catherine, (E) Henry.


Were they also the parents of Dr. John Whetenhall and Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rozer?


A. THOMAS WHETENHALL, ESQUIRE


‘Thomas was at the English College, Rome Oct 1709-Sept 1711 ... (CRS 40, 142).’
Source: Michael Sharratt, Lisbon College Register 1628-1813, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 72 (1991), 214-215.


1715
‘Henry Whetenhall, of East Peckham, Esq. - Freehold estate, his son Thomas acting with him - £243 6s. 6d.’ [with annotations]
Source: Edgar E. Estcourt and John Orlebar Payne, eds., The English Catholic Nonjurors of 1715 (London and New York, 1885), p. 85. https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE81217


1762
Thomas Whetenhall, Esquire, of Brussels, legatee in 1762 will of his sister Catherine Maura Whetenhall.
PCC 329 St. Eloi (1762) f. 283; http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_309769-00436/515582


‘Thomas Whetenhall, his brother, retired to the convent chaplain’s house (O.S.B.), Brussels, in 1761, as a boarder, and died there, January 13, 1768.’
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 5 (London, 1879), 802; https://archive.org/stream/RecordsOfTheEnglishProvinceOfTheSJv5#page/n878/mode/1up


No PCC will.


B. JAMES WHETENHALL


‘Whetenhall, James, son of Henry Whetenhall and Lettice Tichborne, of Kent. Born 1702, and baptized by a Catholic priest. Made his humanity studies at Douay. He was sent from England to this College by Bishop Giffard. Admitted January 18, 1722. After taking the oath and receiving minor orders, he was ordained subdeacon and deacon in November and December, and priest December 21, 1726. Left May 2, 1728, for Flanders, to become confessor to the Benedictine Nuns at Ghent.’ [with annotations]
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 6 (London, 1880), 472; https://books.google.com/books?id=u_8UAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA472&lpg=PA472


‘Whetenhall, James, son of Henry Whetenhall, of East Peckham, Kent, and of Letitia Tichburne, was born in 1702. His parents were both Catholics. After studying his Classics at Douay, he was sent to Rome by Bishop Giffard, and was received in the College by Father Eberson, Jan. 18, 1722, and ordained Dec. 21, 1726, by Benedict XIII., at St. John Lateran’s. On May 2, 1728, he left the College and went to Ghent, where he was Confessarius to the English Benedictine Dames for the space of forty-four years. “Religiosas curae suae commissas,” says the Obituary, “et verbo et exemplo ad virtutis et perfectionis studium incitare sedulo laboravit. Mundi strepitus exosus tempus quod a sacris functionibus supererat, domi fere sibi et Deo vacans impendebat.” He suffered much illness for the last four years of his life, which he bore with great patience and resignation to the Divine Will. He died, March 2, 1773, at Ghent, in the 71st year of his age and the 46th of his Priesthood.’
Source: John Kirk, Biographies of English Catholics in the Eighteenth Century (London, 1909), 247-248; https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89101766657;view=1up;seq=279


C. GEORGE WHETENHALL


‘Whetnall, George, al. Circuit [c.1702- ]
‘Georgius Whetnall, alias Circuit, Cantiensis, nobilis [All in E. Jones’s hand:] Georgius Whetnall, filius Henrici Whetnall et Sarah Titchborn Catholicorum, circiter undecem annorum aetatis ad Collegium accessit die 17 Iunii anno 1713 ad Latinitatem inchoandam. Die 19 Ianuarii A.D. 1721 ob culpas e Collegio demissus in patriam rediit. 147; not in G.
‘(Kent.) Son of Henry Whetnall and Sarah Tichborne, Catholics. Came June 17 1713, aged about 11, for humanity. Dismissed; went home Jan 19 1721.
‘Note: “The 18th of january a Councel call’d proposed about George Whetnall alias Circuite upon his being proved guilty of stealing, and going over the College walls and that several times in unseanable [unseasonable(?)] hours in the night and of an ill consequence from thence proceeding ?whether ‘tis convenient he should be permitted to remain any longer in the College? Voted in the negative nemine contradicente to be sent away with all expedition and privacy his whole crime, as far as we hitherto find out, not being known in the famaly” (BA 131, 9). His brother Thomas was at the English College, Rome Oct 1709-Sept 1711, when he was expelled (CRS 40, 142).’
Source: Michael Sharratt, Lisbon College Register 1628-1813, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 72 (1991), 214-215.


D. CATHERINE MAURA WHETENHALL


‘Catherine, sister of Henry Whetenhall, was born in 1695, professed in the Benedictine Convent, Brussels, January 7, 1716, became the tenth Abbess in 1757, and deceased Feb. 6, 1762.’
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 5 (London, 1879), 802; https://archive.org/stream/RecordsOfTheEnglishProvinceOfTheSJv5#page/n877/mode/1up


‘Catherine Whettenhall, in religion Maura. Benedictines, Brussels choir nun. She was clothed 4 Oct 1712. She professed 7 Jan 1716, aged 19. Her dowry was £700. Abbess 1757-1762. Sources: AMbenbx-3; Brussels Obit: 135-42; AMbenbx-7: 18; Brussels Benedictine Annals: 175, 192-3; Brussels Benedictines Profession Book: 193.’
Source: Who were the Nuns? https://wwtn.history.qmul.ac.uk/search/nsearch.php?uid=BB194&quote=no&surname=Whetenhall&variants=on&place=


‘Catherine Whettenhall
Profession Book, Brussels Benedictines
Dame Maura Whettenhall
Dame Maura Whettenhall, daughter to Henery Whettenhall Esquire of Peckham in the County of Kent [And of Lettice daughter of [?] Tichborne], was received into the Monestary the 27 of May 1705 and was invested with the Holly Habit October 4 Anno 1712. and made her proffestion Jan the 7th 1716 att the age of 19. Died 1762.’
Source: Who were the Nuns? https://wwtn.history.qmul.ac.uk/search/nsearch.php?uid=BB194&quote=yes&surname=Whetenhall&variants=on&place=


Will of Catherine Maura Whetenhall now of Brussells in Brabant Spinster
Will dated: 11 Sep 1761
Will proved: at London, 28 Jul 1762 by oaths of executors Thomas Whetenhall Esquire and Thomas Willis
I give and bequeath unto my Brother Thomas Whetenhall Esqr: and to Thomas Willis Gentleman both of Brussells aforesaid all my Personal Estate and Effects whatsoever and wheresoever; appoint them executors
Witnesses: Edw: Newton, Ignatius John
PCC 329 St. Eloi (1762) f. 283; http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_309769-00436/515582


E. FATHER HENRY WHETENHALL, S.J.


c.1713
‘Whetenhall, Henry. S[aint] O[mer’s College] ?-c.1713 (CRS.62/155).
B. 1694, Kent. s. of Henry and Lettice (Tichborne) of East Peckham, Kent. S.J. 1713. Priest. To Maryland and England. D. 1745, London. (CRS.8/433; Fo.5/801; 7/831; E. and P. 85; Hu. Text 2/687-8).
Source: Geoffrey Holt, St. Omers and Bruges Colleges, 1593-1773: A Biographical Dictionary, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 69 (1979), 284.


1724
Henry Whetenhall in Maryland
Source: 173
Source: William P. Treacy, “Catalogue of Early Jesuits in Maryland, 1634-1805,” Old Catholic Maryland and Its Early Jesuit Missionaries (Swedesboro, New Jersey, 1889), 173; https://archive.org/stream/oldcatholicmaryl00trea#page/173/mode/1up


1727
Henry Whetenhall in Maryland
Source: William P. Treacy, “Catalogue of Early Jesuits in Maryland, 1634-1805,” Old Catholic Maryland and Its Early Jesuit Missionaries (Swedesboro, New Jersey, 1889), 173; https://archive.org/stream/oldcatholicmaryl00trea#page/173/mode/1up


1727
Henry Whetenhall and John Whetenhall witnessed will and codicil of Notley Rozer, of Prince George’s County, Maryland. Will dated 6 April 1727.
Source: Jane Baldwin and Roberta Bolling Henry, The Maryland Calendar of Wills 6 (Baltimore, Maryland, 1920), 36; https://books.google.com/books?id=XwoQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36 (citing Prerogative Court of Maryland Wills 19:224)


1732
Henry Whetenhall in Maryland
Source: William P. Treacy, “Catalogue of Early Jesuits in Maryland, 1634-1805,” Old Catholic Maryland and Its Early Jesuit Missionaries (Swedesboro, New Jersey, 1889), 174; https://archive.org/stream/oldcatholicmaryl00trea#page/174/mode/1up


1732
Henry Whetenhall witnessed will of Elizabeth Rozer, of Prince George’s County, Maryland, Widow, dated 10 October 1732.
Source: Prerogative Court of Maryland Will Book 20:674-676;
http://interactive.ancestry.com/9068/007737520_00826/393806


1733
Henry Whetenhall, in Anne Arundel Co., Md.
Source: William P. Treacy, “Catalogue of Early Jesuits in Maryland, 1634-1805,” Old Catholic Maryland and Its Early Jesuit Missionaries (Swedesboro, New Jersey, 1889), 174; https://archive.org/stream/oldcatholicmaryl00trea#page/174/mode/1up


1733
At ye foot of ye foregoing Will [of Elizabeth Rozer] was the following Probate thus Written
May ye 3d 1733, Then Came the Reverend Henry Whetenhall & made Oath on the Holy Evangelist of Allmighty God that he Saw & heard Mrs Elizabeth Rozer the Deced: Testator Sign Seal publish & Declair this Will …
Source: Prerogative Court of Maryland Will Book 20:674-676;
http://interactive.ancestry.com/9068/007737520_00826/393806


1733/4
Henry Whetenhall, priest, legatee in the will of John Clarvo, of Prince George’s County, Maryland, dated 28 Feb 1733/4.
Source: Robert W. Barnes, Colonial Families of Maryland: Bound and Determined to Succeed (Baltimore, Maryland, 2007), 51; https://books.google.com/books?id=Zg9ScOKWei8C&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51


1734
‘Father Zwinge writes, “In the times of Father Whetenhall all had first class horses, as you may judge from the list of names found in a certain pig-skin memorandum book of Newtown.’


‘Father Thomas Gerard’s rent book at St. Inigoes contains an entry, ‘November 11, 1734 Payed for the cure of Mr. Whetenhal’s leg 5 lb,” which indicates that Father Henry Whetenhall, S.J., also was stationed there at that time. Father Zwinge writes that probably he was thrown by his horse which had seen something, such as a ghost, and that the good Father should have been riding a horse like St. Inigoes famous horse “Old Pew Rent” which “being a church horse, as his name indicates, was not afraid of any ghost.” Father Whetenhall returned to England where he died on May 27, 1745.’
Source: Edwin Warfield Beitzell, The Jesuit Missions of St. Mary’s County, Maryland (n.p., 1976), 52, 57.


1734-1735
Priests Who Served at St. Inigoes: Fr. Henry Whetenhall, S.J., 1734-1735
Source: Edwin Warfield Beitzell, The Jesuit Missions of St. Mary’s County, Maryland (n.p., 1976), 246.


1735
Henry Whetenhall, legatee of Nicholas Downing, Prince George’s County, Maryland, 14 April 1735
Source: Robert W. Barnes, Colonial Families of Maryland: Bound and Determined to Succeed (Baltimore, Maryland, 2007), 51; https://books.google.com/books?id=Zg9ScOKWei8C&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51


1745
Father James Whetenhall died the 27th of May, in England
[NWM: Should say Father Henry.]
Source: William P. Treacy, “Catalogue of Early Jesuits in Maryland, 1634-1805,” Old Catholic Maryland and Its Early Jesuit Missionaries (Swedesboro, New Jersey, 1889), 175; https://archive.org/stream/oldcatholicmaryl00trea#page/175/mode/1up


‘Among others [at Lulworth Castle, Dorset], was Father Henry Whetenhall. He is supposed to have been born in kent, August 31, 1694. After his humanity studies at St. Omer’s he entered the Society in September, 1713, and was solemnly professed August 15, 1732, in Maryland, to which mission he was sent in 1724. He probably returned to England in 1736-7, and then came to Lulworth. He died in London, May 10, 1745, as appears from a letter of Father Sebastian Redford to Father John Williams, dated May 19.


‘The Diary of the English Benedictine Nuns of Brussels, preserved in St. Scholastica’s Abbey, Teignmouth, says that Father Henry was son of Henry Whetenhall, Esq., of East Peckham, Kent, and his mother was Lettice Tichborne, sister of (Father) Sir John Hermingild Tichborne, S.J., the fifth Baronet, who succeeded his brother, Sir Henry Joseph, May 5, 1743.’ Footnote: See Records, vol. iii. p. 722, note, where the word “father” is erroneously printed for “brother.”
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 5 (London, 1879), 801; https://archive.org/stream/RecordsOfTheEnglishProvinceOfTheSJv5#page/n876/mode/1up


‘... Fr. Henry Whetenhall, who was born August 31, 1694; entered the Society 1713; professed August 15, 1732, and after serving the Missions in Maryland and England, died in London May 10, 1745.’
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 6 (London, 1880), 472; https://books.google.com/books?id=u_8UAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA472&lpg=PA472


‘Whetenhall, Henry, Father, was son of Henry Whetenhall, Esq., of East Peckham, county Kent, and his wife Lettice Tichborne, sister to Father Sir John Hermenegild Tichborne, S.J., the fifth baronet. He was born on August 31, 1694, in Kent; studied his humanities at St. Omer’s College; entered the Society September 7, 1713, and was professed of the four vows August 15, 1732. He went out to the Maryland Mission in 1724; returned to England about 1736/7, and was sent to the mission of Lulworth Castle. He died in London, May 16, or 27, 1745, aet. 51. (Records S.J. vol. v. p. 801).’
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 7 (London, 1883), 831; https://archive.org/stream/recordsofenglishv7p2fole#page/831/mode/1up


‘1723. Whetenhall, Fr. Henry. 1694-1713-1745. Professed of 4 vows. (1st, 1723:) “Parat se Londini ad Missionem Marilandicam;” (1723) in Md., till 1735; (3rd, 1736:) in the College of St. Ignatius, England. (2nd, 1727:) All his gifts of a high order, “talento ad missiones satis bono.”’
Source: Thomas Hughes, History of the Society of Jesus in North America Colonial and Federal 2 (London, New York, 1917), 687-688; https://books.google.com/books?id=inNKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA687&lpg=PA687


‘Whetenhall, Henry. Priest. B. August 31st, 1694, Kent. s. of Henry and Lettice (Tichborne) of East Peckham, Kent. e. St Omers College ?-1713. S.J. September 7th, 1713. Watten (nov) 1714. Liege (phil) 1715-6, 1718. Liege (theol) 1720. Ordained priest c.1722. London 1723. Maryland 1724-35. College of St Ignatius 1736. Lulworth 1737. Burton Park 1738-44. D. May 17th, 1745, in London. (Fo. 7; CRS.69; 114; 113; Hu. Text 2/687; RH.13/116-7; 44 f.250; 64 f.81; 74; 91; Bur. 1/148 plate; E and P.85; CRS.6/365; CRS.8/433; CRS.22/308; CRS.62/155, 234, 242, 247, 269, 272, 316; Nec).’
Source: Geoffrey Holt, The English Jesuits 1650-1829: A Biographical Dictionary, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 70 (1984), 264.


‘Father Henry Whetenhall, S.J., born in 1694, son of Henry Whetenhall, of East Peckham, Kent, Esq., and his wife Lettice, daughter of Sir Henry Tichborne, of Tichborne, 3rd Bart. (by Mary, daughter of Charles Arundell, and niece of Thomas, second Lord Arundell of Wardour), succeeded Father Richardson [at Lulworth Castle, Dorset], and died in London in 1745, possibly having gone with the Welds to their town house.’
Source: J. H. Harting, ‘Registers of the Catholic Chapel, Lulworth Castle, Dorset,’ Miscellanea V, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 6 (London, 1909), 365; https://archive.org/stream/miscellaneav05cathuoft#page/364/mode/2up


‘Fr. Henry Whetenhall, S.J., was pastor at Burton when Bishop Challoner confirmed forty-five, out of a congregation of about ninety, on 17 June 1741. There can have been no episcopal visitation for many years (E. H. Burton, Life and Times of Bishop Challoner). Foley says Fr. Whetenhall was born in Kent 31 Aug. 1694; entered the S.J. 7 Sept. 1713; professed 15 Aug. 1732 [?1722]; went to Maryland in 1724[?]; returned to England about 1736-7; and was sent to Lulworth Castle, Dorset, but Burton is not mentioned; and died in London 27 May 1745, when he would be aged 50. His parentage is given by Gillow in C.R.S. viii, 433. His grandfather, Thomas Whetenhall of East Peckham, Kent, signed a three-generation pedigree at the Visitation in 1663, quartering twenty-four coats with his arms (Harl. Soc. liv, 178). His only son, Henry Whetenhall of East Peckham, as a Nonjuror, in 1717 declared the value of his estate there at £243 6s. 6d., his son Thomas acting with him. The latter died in Brussels 13 Jan. 1768. A third son, James, a secular priest, born in 1702, was ordained by Pope Benedict XIII, became confessor to the English Benedictine nuns at Ghent, where he died 2 March 1773 (J. Kirk, Biographies 247). Two daughters were - Dame Catherine Maura Whetenhall, O.S.B., of Brussels; and Dame Mary Placida Whetenhall, O.S.B., of Pontoise (C.R.S. viii and xiv).
[Note: NWM, Mary is identified as a sister, rather than daughter of Henry Whetenhall, Esq. in other compilations.]
‘It is possible that there may have been a lapse in the chaplaincy, as Charles Biddulph and his wife, Frances Bedingfeld, had three children baptised at Winchester, - on 17 July 1752, 9 Nov. 1755, and 7 July 1759 (C.R.S. i), extending even into the scanty returns during the period of the following priest- [Thomas Sanders].’
Source: Father Bernadine and Joseph Stanislaus Hansom, ‘The Catholic Registers of the Domestic Chapel of the Goring, Biddulph, and Wright Family at Burton House, Burton, Sussex, 1720-1855,’ Miscellanea XII, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 22 (1921), 308; https://archive.org/stream/miscellaneaxii22unknuoft#page/308/mode/1up


No PCC will.


















PROBABLE RELATIVES - ARE THEY CHILDREN OF HENRY AND LETTICE (TICHBORN) WHETTENHALL?


A. DR. JOHN WHETENHALL


Extensive list of sources: http://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I016403&tree=Tree1


1727
Henry Whetenhall and John Whetenhall witnessed will and codicil of Notley Rozer, of Prince George’s County, Maryland. Will dated 6 April 1727.
Source: Jane Baldwin and Roberta Bolling Henry, The Maryland Calendar of Wills 6 (Baltimore, Maryland, 1920), 36; https://books.google.com/books?id=XwoQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36 (citing Prerogative Court of Maryland Wills 19:224)


1732
In her will, dated 10 October 1732, Elizabeth Rozer appointed her Brother John Whetenhall of St Marys County Phisician executor and guardian to her children.
Source: Prerogative Court of Maryland Will Book 20:674-676;
http://interactive.ancestry.com/9068/007737520_00826/393806




B. ELIZABETH (WHETENHALL) ROZER, WIFE OF NOTLEY ROZER


Extensive list of sources on Elizabeth: http://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I016083&tree=Tree1


Extensive list of sources on Notley: http://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I011357&tree=Tree1


c.1694-c.1697
‘ROZIER or ROZER, Knotley or Notley ?alias Calvert. S[aint] O[mer’s College] c.1694-c.97 (Reference: 75, ff. 15v, 18v, 24v, 26v).
?From Maryland. ?s. of Benjamin. (Hu. Docs. 1/204, 221).’
[Note: Also other Roziers, thought to be from Maryland.]
Source: Geoffrey Holt, St. Omers and Bruges Colleges, 1593-1773: A Biographical Dictionary, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 69 (1979), 226-227.


1711
St. Thomas Manor-Land Documents. Indenture between Notley Rozer and William Hunter, S.J.
Source: 39928, Folder 101 T14-V4, Maryland Province Archives of the Society of Jesus, Georgetown University Manuscripts; https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/10822/558883/GTM.GAMMS119.html
[NWM: Note Rozer’s interaction with a Jesuit.]


1724/5
Helen (Wolseley) Sprat in 1724/5 stated ‘as to Mrs. Rosier my cousin and our family were always great frinds and neigh[] her grandfather and gran- have bin often at the palace at Brumley [NWM: Bromley Palace, Kent] she was a woman and a fine woman too and Mr. Whettenall one of the hansomest men I ever saw I was then a girl of about fifteen [editor: about 1662] and she was about 24 and going to a monestery but was like to so staid not a year then Mr. Whetenall married her when she came back and a happy coople they were if I mistake Mr. Rozier was son of a daughter of my cousin Showells or Seawells …
Source: Letter from Helen Sprat to Mrs. Ross, Annapolis, Maryland, dated 15 January 1724/5, in McHenry Howard, ‘Some Old English Letters,’ Maryland Historical Magazine 9 (1914):127-130; https://archive.org/stream/marylandhistoric09brow#page/127/mode/1up (Thanks to Robert Barnes for this reference.)
[NWM: Helen’s cousin Mrs. Rosier, if we’re interpreting this correctly, was Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rosier or Rozer. Her grandfather was Thomas Whetenhall alias Thomas Stanley (b. 1627). His wife Catherine Talbot died without issue in 1656, see CRS 7.90. His second wife Elizabeth Bedingfield died without issue in 1664[/5], see Cook, A Manor Through Four Centuries, 40 and https://gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=288073&scrwidth=1200. See also 1663 Visitation of Kent, p. 178, https://books.google.com/books?id=R5Tw1dDaD10C&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178, and summary of Catherine Talbot Whetenhall’s family narrative, ‘Thomas Whetenhall of East Peckham in Kent,’ The Downside Review 15 (1896):29-48, https://books.google.com/books?id=6sYRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29. Thanks to Polly for this reference. Some of Helen’s letters were written from Bexley, Kent. Bexley and Bromley were both about 18 miles from East Peckham. The woman likely to go into a monastery would have to be Anne Saunders. Anne was born in 1638, according to her grave monument; she would have been 25 in 1663. See Anne Anglesye Whetenhall grave at East Peckham: http://gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=288071&scrwidth=1600]


1732
Will of Elizabeth Rozer of Prince Georges County in the Province of Maryland Widow
Will dated: 10 Oct 1732
Will proved: 3 May 1733
It is my Will yt [that] the Estate of my Deceased Husband Mr Rozer whereof I was Left Sole Executrix
Son: Henry Rozer “be Sent to Europe there to be educated” £100 for his schooling (underage)
Daughter: Catharine Rozer, Malatto Woman named Nanny & her Son Jack (underage)
Daughter: Elizabeth Rozer, Negro Woman Bess & her Son Bob (underage)
[Slaves:] Betty Cook & her five Sons Charley, Tom, Peter, Ned & Robin As allso the Malatto Woman Nanny & her Son Jack & Bess & her Son Bob be last reserved & kept on ys [this] Plantation until my Children Come of Age or Marry
Brother: John Whetenhall of St Marys County Phisician, executor, guardian to my children
Witnesses: Henry Whetenhall, Jane Craycroft (her mark)
Seal of Eliza: Rozer
At ye foot of ye foregoing Will was the following Probate thus Written
May ye 3d 1733, Then Came the Reverend Henry Whetenhall & made Oath on the Holy Evangelist of Allmighty God that he Saw & heard Mrs Elizabeth Rozer the Deced: Testator Sign Seal publish & Declair this Will …
Sworn before Pet. Dent Dty Comry of Pr: Geo: County
Source: Prerogative Court of Maryland Will Book 20:674-676;
http://interactive.ancestry.com/9068/007737520_00826/393806


Additional sources on Notley Rozer: Dorman, John Frederick, Adventurers of Purse and Person, 1, 2004. pp. 828, 836-7. He cites (1) Charles Co., MD Deed Book Q #1 reverse p. 4; (2) The Maryland and Delaware Genealogist XIX p. 84.


Nathan

[Nathan Murphy]

Post by Nathan Murphy
A. THOMAS WHETENHALL, ESQUIRE
‘Thomas was at the English College, Rome Oct 1709-Sept 1711 ... (CRS 40, 142).’
Source: Michael Sharratt, Lisbon College Register 1628-1813, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 72 (1991), 214-215.
1715
‘Henry Whetenhall, of East Peckham, Esq. - Freehold estate, his son Thomas acting with him - £243 6s. 6d.’ [with annotations]
Source: Edgar E. Estcourt and John Orlebar Payne, eds., The English Catholic Nonjurors of 1715 (London and New York, 1885), p. 85. https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE81217
1762
Thomas Whetenhall, Esquire, of Brussels, legatee in 1762 will of his sister Catherine Maura Whetenhall.
PCC 329 St. Eloi (1762) f. 283; http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_309769-00436/515582
‘Thomas Whetenhall, his brother, retired to the convent chaplain’s house (O.S.B.), Brussels, in 1761, as a boarder, and died there, January 13, 1768.’
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 5 (London, 1879), 802; https://archive.org/stream/RecordsOfTheEnglishProvinceOfTheSJv5#page/n878/mode/1up

Thomas Whetenhall's marriage is recorded in the parish registers of Saint-Germain-en-Laye in France:

Transcript:

Whetenhall-Symes (1716. 30 Juin). Thomas Whetenhall, gentilh. anglais, f. de Henry, et de feue dame Tichbourne. - Anne Symes, ff. de Jacques Symes, gentilh. de la ch[ambre] du Roi d’Angl. et de feue Elisabeth Nevill.
T.T. Guillaume Dicconson, contrôleur de la Maison de la Reine. Georges Colgrave, chevalier de St. Louis et d’Angleterre. Jean Ashton, gentilh.
S.S. Whetenhall. Symes. Ja. Symes. W. Diconson. Geo. Colgrave. Ashton.
Source: C. E. Lart, ed., The Parochial Registers of Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Jacobite Extracts of Births, Marriages and Deaths: With Notes and Appendices (London: The St. Catherine Press, 1912), Vol. 2, p. 25; https://archive.org/stream/parochialregiste02sain#page/25/mode/1up

Original record: (image 64 of 123)

http://archives.yvelines.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTYtMTEtMTYiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MTtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6NjMxODtzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=0%2C0&uielem_rotate=F&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=74

Nathan

[Polly]

Post by Nathan Murphy

Post by Nathan Murphy
A. THOMAS WHETENHALL, ESQUIRE
‘Thomas was at the English College, Rome Oct 1709-Sept 1711 ... (CRS 40, 142).’
Source: Michael Sharratt, Lisbon College Register 1628-1813, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 72 (1991), 214-215.
1715
‘Henry Whetenhall, of East Peckham, Esq. - Freehold estate, his son Thomas acting with him - £243 6s. 6d.’ [with annotations]
Source: Edgar E. Estcourt and John Orlebar Payne, eds., The English Catholic Nonjurors of 1715 (London and New York, 1885), p. 85. https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE81217
1762
Thomas Whetenhall, Esquire, of Brussels, legatee in 1762 will of his sister Catherine Maura Whetenhall.
PCC 329 St. Eloi (1762) f. 283; http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_309769-00436/515582
‘Thomas Whetenhall, his brother, retired to the convent chaplain’s house (O.S.B.), Brussels, in 1761, as a boarder, and died there, January 13, 1768.’
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 5 (London, 1879), 802; https://archive.org/stream/RecordsOfTheEnglishProvinceOfTheSJv5#page/n878/mode/1up

Whetenhall-Symes (1716. 30 Juin). Thomas Whetenhall, gentilh. anglais, f. de Henry, et de feue dame Tichbourne. - Anne Symes, ff. de Jacques Symes, gentilh. de la ch[ambre] du Roi d’Angl. et de feue Elisabeth Nevill.
T.T. Guillaume Dicconson, contrôleur de la Maison de la Reine. Georges Colgrave, chevalier de St. Louis et d’Angleterre. Jean Ashton, gentilh.
S.S. Whetenhall. Symes. Ja. Symes. W. Diconson. Geo. Colgrave. Ashton.
Source: C. E. Lart, ed., The Parochial Registers of Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Jacobite Extracts of Births, Marriages and Deaths: With Notes and Appendices (London: The St. Catherine Press, 1912), Vol. 2, p. 25; https://archive.org/stream/parochialregiste02sain#page/25/mode/1up
Original record: (image 64 of 123)
http://archives.yvelines.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTYtMTEtMTYiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MTtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6NjMxODtzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=0%2C0&uielem_rotate=F&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=74
Nathan

Wow, Nathan. I'm blown away by how much you found how quickly...just what I was hoping for! So, I take it, no smoking gun but lots of circumstantial evidence suggesting that Elizabeth Whetenhall and her brother Dr. John were likely Henry Whetenhall and Lettice Tichborne's children? A tiny further bit may be that Elizabeth Whetenhall Rozer named her children Henry, Elizabeth, and Catherine, Henry being both her father and her brother (Henry SJ) and Catherine being her sister (Catherine Maura in religion). But these are very common names, so...another tidbit is that according to Barnes the Whetenhall arms are supposedly on the tomb of her grandson Thomas Whetenhall Rozer, who d. in 1785 and was buried at "Bowlingly," Queen Anne's County, MD. But, I have never found a picture of such and have no idea what the Whetenhall arms are...her named brother John was a physician...any idea if there would be records of where/with whom he studied?

Maybe also there's more information to be found in records left by Notley Rozer's children by his first marriage to Jane Digges. Their daughter Ann married Daniel Carroll of Duddington and appears to have left a will (which I can't find of course)...maybe more info in the Carroll papers...thanks again, however, for all you've found so quickly. Polly

[Nathan Murphy]

Post by Polly
So, I take it, no smoking gun but lots of circumstantial evidence suggesting that Elizabeth Whetenhall and her brother Dr. John were likely Henry Whetenhall and Lettice Tichborne's children?

Smoking gun found - inheritance of family portraits. These verify the Marylanders descent from the Whetenhalls of East Peckham, Kent, England. The portraits of Sir Thomas Whetenhall of East Peckham and his wife Eliza are in Maryland. They have been in Maryland since at least 1802, and probably since 1727.

<My favorite portrait:> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39076000392469;view=1up;seq=510

In 1802, Henry Rozer [eldest son of Notley and Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rozer], bequeathed ‘my family pictures of the Whitten Hall my honored mothers family” to his granddaughter Maria Rozer.

Source: Will of Henry Rozer, Prince George’s County, Maryland, dated 29 August 1802, proved 6 September 1802, Will Book T 1:518-522 (at 519); online images, FamilySearch; https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9TYR-HZ7?i=266&cc=1803986

The paintings are not mentioned in his parents’ wills, but in their inventories we find:

In 1727:
‘2 Large Pictures’ valued £1 10s. 0d.
‘10 Small ditto fine drawn’ valued £1 0s. 0d.

Source: Probate Inventory of Notley Rozer, Prince George’s County, Maryland, dated 21 November 1727, Inventory Book TB 1:74-82 (at 75); online images, FamilySearch; https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GT12-JQS?i=541&cc=1803986&cat=63410

(Also in Notley’s inventory, some of the items are identified as being “In Mr Whetenhalls Roome.” His brother-in-law evidently had a room in the house.)

In 1734:
‘2 pictures’ valued 5 shillings
‘10 small Ditto’ valued 5 shillings

Source: Probate Inventory of Elizabeth Rozer, Prince George’s County, Maryland, dated 27 March 1734, Inventory Book PD 1:207-212 (at 209); online images, FamilySearch; https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GT12-NL1?mode=g&cc=1803986

Who were the subjects of these ‘family pictures of the Whitten Hall?’

Some are identified and one is illustrated in the February 1896 issue of The Century Magazine, at which time they were at the ‘drawing-room and library at Cheston [Maryland]:’

‘Mistress Katherine Wetenhall as a Magdalen; and the beautiful Mistress Eliza Wetenhall, whose charms of person, albeit she was stupid and listless are descanted upon with unction by Anthony Hamilton; and a portrait of Mistress Augusta Wetenhall by Leermans of Brussels. These found their way to the walls at Cheston through intermarriage of the De Courcys with the English families of Rozier, Notley, and Hall, people of much social consideration.’

Source: John Williamson Palmer, ‘Certain Worthies and Dames of Old Maryland,’ The Century Magazine, Vol. 51, No. 4 (February 1896):483-499 (at 492: Portrait of Mrs. Katherine Wetenhall by Sir Peter Lely; at 493: description); online images; HathiTrust; https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39076000392469;view=1up;seq=510

A further description appears in the April 1900 issue of Dixie: A Monthly Magazine:

‘In Maryland also there are several Lelys, which have come down to the present generation in the De Courcey family. Three of them are the portraits of Sir Thomas Whetenhall, or Wetenhall, and his wife, Lady Eliza Whetenhall, also, Mrs. Katherine Whetenhall. The others are of the Saunders family.

‘The De Courcey’s inherited the Whetenall portraits through an inter-marriage with the Roziers, of “Notley Hall,” Maryland, an old English family in which is found the Whetenhall name and blood.’

Source: Kate Mason Rowland, ‘Old Portraits,’ Dixie: A Monthly Magazine, Vol. 3, No. 4 (April 1900), 239-254 (at 252-253); online images, Google Books; https://books.google.com/books?id=BZFEAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA252&lpg=RA1-PA252

The artists:

Sir Peter Lely (1618-1680), artist profile http://artuk.org/discover/artists/lely-peter-16181680

Pieter Leermans (c1635-1706) in RKD https://rkd.nl/en/artists/48856

Lely’s portrait of Elizabeth Bedingfield (1636-1689 [should be 1637-1664]), Mrs Thomas Wetenhall, has remained in England and is currently at Oxburgh Hall, UK:
http://www.nationaltrustcollections.org.uk/object/1210270

Where are the portraits that came to Maryland today? From what I can tell, they seem to be in the Anderson House in Washington, D.C., as mentioned in the Society of Cincinnati’s 2005 Annual Report:

The Clement Ellis Conger Internship—The Clement Ellis Conger Internship was established in May 2003 in honor of Clement Ellis Conger (1912-2004), a long-time curator of the State Department Diplomatic Reception Rooms and a member of the Society of the Cincinnati in the State of Virginia. Previous recipients of this internship have catalogued and re-housed the collection of Society eagles, inventoried the Anderson family papers, and, most recently, catalogued and researched the portraits of the Wetenhall-de Courcy-May Collection. The internship carries a $1,000 stipend, which is generously funded by the John Jay Hopkins Foundation.
http://societyofthecincinnati.org/pdf/downloads/AnnualReport_2005_interior.pdf

I have contacted the Society of Cincinnati Librarian and await a reply about the research undertaken on the Wetenhall paintings.

Nathan

[Nathan Murphy]

Post by Polly
So, I take it, no smoking gun but lots of circumstantial evidence suggesting that Elizabeth Whetenhall and her brother Dr. John were likely Henry Whetenhall and Lettice Tichborne's children?

Further connections between the Rozers of Maryland and Thomas Whetenhall of Brussels (known brother of Jesuit Henry Whetenhall of Maryland).

In her will, dated 10 October 1732, Elizabeth [Whetenhall] Rozer, of Prince George’s County, Maryland left £100 to her minor son Henry Rozer to “be Sent to Europe there to be educated.”

Source: Will of Elizabeth Rozer, Prince George’s County, Maryland, dated 10 October 1732, Prerogative Court of Maryland Will Book 20:674-676; online images, Ancestry; http://interactive.ancestry.com/9068/007737520_00826/393806

In his own will in 1802, Henry Rozer gave “to my Great Grand Son Notley Rozer all my Books both in French and English.”

Source: Will of Henry Rozer, Prince George’s County, Maryland, dated 29 August 1802, proved 6 September 1802, Will Book T 1:518-522 (at 519); online images, FamilySearch; https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9TYR-HZ7?i=266&cc=1803986

He appears to have received education in the French language. I have not located scholastic records for him in Europe.

Henry Rozer’s daughter Elizabeth was received into the English Benedictine Nuns monastery in Brussels in 1767/8:

‘Dame Scholastica Rozer§ [fn: baptized Elizabeth] Daughter to Henry Rozer Esqr of Nottly Hall in Mary-Land was received into Our Monastery the 29 of January 1767, was invested with the Holy Habit of S' Benedict 24 of November same year ; made her holy Profession Dec' the 2nd 1768 at the Age of 22. Died 1791.’
Sources:
(1) Joseph S. Hansom, ed., ‘The Register Book of Professions, etc., of the English Benedictine Nuns at Brussels and Winchester, Now at East Bergholt, 1598-1856,’ Miscellanea IX, Catholic Record Society Pubs. 14 (1914), 197; online images, Internet Archive; https://archive.org/stream/miscellanea14cath#page/196/mode/2up
(2) ‘Elizabeth Rozer,’ Who were the Nuns?; https://wwtn.history.qmul.ac.uk/search/nsearch.php?uid=BB154#
Henry Rozer was in Brussels, Belgium in 1760/1, when he participated in a deed concerning Maryland land involving John Carroll [Jesuit, later Archbishop of Baltimore], whose brother was Daniel Carroll [son-in-law of Notley and Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rozer], himself, and Thomas Whetenhall:
Hodie Coram me Notario Publico in Consilio Brabantiz admisso Comparuerunt Dominies Joannes Carroll et Dominies henricus Rozer et Thomas Whetenhall ut Testes qui quidem Joannes Carroll in presentia mea et supradictorum ^Testium^ has presentes Litteras manu Signavit Siguo munisit et declaravit se ut actum Spontaneum eas de de sse and opus ibis in Cottentum in ujus rei fidem hoc attestor Bruxellis decimo octavo January anno millesimo septingintesimo Sexagesimo
K G Hermaie Nots

Nos Consles scabini et consiliaru Urbis Bruxellensis in Divertie Brabantiæ Notum facimus et Attestamue Magistrum Joannen Gerardum Hermale qui has præsentes Signavit esse Notarium publicum at que Tridelem cujus scriptio ita ab eo Signatis plena ad hibetur fides tam in Judicio quam extra in quorium fidem præsentes dictæ Urbis Sigillo Communiri et a Graphæo nostro Subsignari Jussimus hac 18 Januarii 1760
L I DeZadalum

Maryland fs.t June 26 1760
Then Came before me Henry Rozer Esq.r one of the Subscribing Witnesses to the within Deed and made oath on the Holy Evangelist of Almighty God that he saw the withn named John Carroll Sign seal and
sides Deliver the said Deed as his Act and Deed for the uses intents and purposes 5½ therein Mentioned and that Thomas Whetenhall subscribed together with him the said Henry Rozer ^as^ Witness thereto at the same time
sworn before J Hepburn
Recorded 10th July 1760

This transaction was registered in Maryland’s Provincial Court Land Records, 1759-1762; online images (click View pdf image) Archives of Maryland, 723:118-121 (at 119); http://aomol.msa.maryland.gov/000001/000723/html/am723--119.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carroll_(bishop)

The only adult Henry Rozer in the family at this time was Henry, son of Notley and Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rozer. The only Thomas Whetenhall was the last surname bearer in the family who lived in Brussels (see previous post). Thomas would have been Henry’s brother-in-law.

Additional records concerning Thomas Whetenhall, son of Henry and Lettice (Tichborn) Whettenhall:

Burial at Sint-Jacob-op-Koudenberg / Saint Jacques sur Coudenberg in Brussels:

16 Januarij 1768 Eulijck[?] met 16 heeren ad Benedictinas Anglas Monsr. Thomas Whetenhal Ecuier Woonende in het [?] Clooster der Engelsche Benedictinerssen[?] pro jure palla in toto pro Cap 6=13 pro oblatis 0=19

Source: Sint-Jacob-op-Koudenberg, Brussels, Belgium, Catholic parish registers; online image, Les archives de l’État en Belgique; http://search.arch.be/fr/rechercher-des-archives/resultats/inventaris/rabscan/eadid/BE-A0541_006325_006218_FRE/inventarisnr/I0063250062181887/level/file/scan-index/8/foto/541_9998_998_00170_000_0_0008_r (Image 17 of 282 - requires free registration).

met=with
heeren=Messrs
wonende=residing
het=the
monseigneur=my lord
ecuier=esquire
clooster=cloister
Engelsche=English

Here’s Google’s Street View of the church:
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8422624,4.3590827,3a,75y,128.02h,97.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7hi6w7up5TB9roYWt4aPhg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Thomas Whetenhall’s parentage is identified in papers from the English College in Rome (from which he was expelled):

‘1709/10 [150v.]
Thomas Whetenhall Cantianus \Dioec. Cantuariensis/ filius Henrici Whetenhall et Laeticiae Tichborne, annorum 15 cum dimidio accepta Confirmatione venit ad Collegium 14 Octobris anni 1709, et inter Alumnos SS. D. N. Clementis Papae XI de mandato Eminmi Cardinalis Caprarae Protectoris admissus fuit die 16 Octobris 1709, R. P. francisco Powell Rectore. Venit ad Logicam. Pessime se gessit: et tanquam scandalum Collegii, non nisi una ante hora proemonitus, expulsus est. Iuit Florentiam. die 12 Sept. 1711.’

Source: Wilfrid Kelly et al, ed., Liber Rvber Venerabilis Collegii Anglorvm de Vrbe: Annales Collegii, Pars Prima. Nomina Alvmnorvm II. A.D. 1631-1783, Catholic Record Society Pubs. 40 (1943), 142.

In her will dated at Bruxelles 27 September 1752, ‘Mary Crispe daughter of Henry Crispe Esquire and Mary his Wife both deceased born in the Parish of Linsted in the County of Kent now residing at Brusells in the Parish of St. Gudule,’ left her entire estate to “Thomas Whetenhall Esquire of East Peckham in the County of Kent and Mrs Ethelderd Mannock of Giffards Hall in the County of Suffolk Spinster both now residing in Bruxelles” and appointed them executors. They made oaths to prove the will, which occurred on 3 December 1757.

Source: Will of Mary Crispe, dated 27 September 1752, proved 3 December 1757, Prerogative Court of Canterbury 351 Herring (1757) f. 161; online images, Ancestry; http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_311659-00337/249150

In an article on the East Peckham Whetenhall family published in the February 1993 issue of Catholic Ancestor, the author notes Thomas went to Rome to be educated and was then expelled. He couldn’t trace him further and states the family disappears from Kent. Curiously, he also states Henry and Lettice (Tichbourne) Whetenhall had seven children, but only names Henry, James, Thomas, and states two were nuns. That is five children. Who were the others and what are his sources?

Source: Fr Michael Clifton, ‘The Whetenhalls - An Obscure Kent Family,’ Catholic Ancestor, Vol. 4, No. 4 (February 1993), 144-147.

Last, Henry’s father, ‘Thomas Whetnall Esq[ui]re’ paid a tax on 13 hearths in Lone Borough in 1664. Lone Borough is recorded between East and West Peckham.

Source: Duncan Harrington, ‘Kent Hearth Tax Assessment Lady Day 1664 CKS: Q/RTh,’ p. 82; PDF file, Hearth Tax Online; http://www.hearthtax.org.uk/communities/kent/kent_1664L_transcript.pdf

Nathan

[Nathan Murphy]

Now that her immigrant origin is verified (or does anyone wish to challenge that?) - do we have any volunteers for counting the number of Elizabeth's royal descents?

Nathan

[j***@gmail.com]

Congrats on making the connection which is clearly very solid.

[Olivier]

Post by Nathan Murphy
Now that her immigrant origin is verified (or does anyone wish to challenge that?) - do we have any volunteers for counting the number of Elizabeth's royal descents?
Nathan

at least 22 relationship links between Elizabeth and King Edward III
Elizabeth Whetenhall

Generation 2

2 - Henry Whetenhall +1691/
3 - Lettice Tichborne 1667

Generation 3

5 - Anne Saunders 1637-1689
6 - Henry, baronet Tichborne 1624-1689
7 - Mary Arundell ca 1640-1698

Generation 4

11 - Catherine Jerningham 1622
12 - Richard, baronet Tichborne +1657
14 - William Arundell 1590-1653
15 - Mary Browne 1593-1692

Generation 5

22 - John Jerningham +1636
25 - Amphillis Weston +1581/
28 - Thomas le Vaillant, Baron Arundell 1560-1639
29 - Mary Wriothesley 1572-1607
30 - Anthony Mary Browne, Viscount Montagu 1573/1574-1629

Generation 6

44 - Henry Jerningham +1646
45 - Eleanor Throckmorton
50 - Richard Weston +1572
56 - Matthew Arundell 1535-1598
57 - Margaret Willoughby 1544-1578
59 - Mary Browne 1552-1607
60 - Anthony Browne 1552-1592

Generation 7

89 - Eleanor Dacre
90 - Thomas Throckmorton 1533-1614
101 - Cecily Nevill 1493
112 - Thomas Arundell 1500-1552
115 - Anne Grey ca 1514-1548
118 - Anthony Browne, Viscount Montagu 1529-1592
119 - Jane Ratcliffe ca 1532-1552

Generation 8

178 - William Dacre, Baron Dacre of Gillesland 1500-1563
179 - Elizabeth Talbot +1552
180 - Robert Throckmorton ca 1513-1581
202 - Ralph, Lord Nevill +1498
225 - Eleanor Grey 1478-/1507
230 - Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset 1477-1530
236 - Anthony Browne 1500-1548
239 - Margaret Stanley 1512-1534/

Generation 9

357 - Elizabeth Greystock 1471-1516
358 - George Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury 1468-1538
359 - Anne Hastings 1471-1507
361 - Anna Catherine Vaux 1488-1571
404 - Ralph Nevill, Earl of Westmorland 1456-1523
451 - Cicely Bonville 1461-1529
473 - Lucy Nevill 1468-1534
478 - Thomas Stanley, Earl of Derby 1484-1521
479 - Anne Hastings 1490-1550

Generation 10

714 - Robert Greystock +1483
715 - Elizabeth Grey +1472
717 - Catherine Stafford 1437-1476
719 - Katherine Nevill ca 1442-1504
723 - Elizabeth Fitzhugh 1462-ca 1506
809 - Anne Holland 1432-1486
946 - John Nevill, Marquess Montagu 1429-1471
956 - George Stanley, Lord Strange 1460-1497
958 - Edward, Lord Hastings 1466-1506
959 - Mary, Baroness Hungerford 1467-1533

Generation 11

1,428 - Ralph, baron Greystock 1414-1487
1,430 - Edmund Grey, Baron Grey de Ruthyn 1416-1490
1,431 - Katherine Percy 1423-1493
1,434 - Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham 1402-1460
1,435 - Anne Nevill 1408-1480
1,438 - Richard Nevill, Earl of Salisbury 1400-1460
1,447 - Alice Nevill 1436-1476
1,618 - John Holland, Duke of Exeter 1395-1447
1,619 - Anne Stafford ca 1400-1432
1,913 - Eleanor Nevill 1436-1471
1,919 - Anne Percy 1444-1522

Generation 12

2,857 - Elizabeth Ferrers 1392-1434
2,861 - Constance Holland 1387-1437
2,862 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1393-1455
2,863 - Eleanor Nevill 1403-1472
2,869 - Anne Plantagenêt 1383-1438
2,871 - Joan Beaufort ca 1379-1440
3,237 - Elizabeth Plantagenêt ca 1364-1425
3,838 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1421-1461

Generation 13

5,725 - Elizabeth Mortimer 1371-1417
5,738 - Thomas of Woodstock, Duke of Gloucester 1356-1397
5,742 - John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster 1340-1399

Generation 14

11,451 - Philippa of Clarence 1355-1382
11,476 - Edward III of Windsor, King of England 1312-1377

Generation 15

22,902 - Lionel of Antwerp, Duke of Clarence 1338-1368

[John Higgins]

Post by Olivier

Post by Nathan Murphy
Now that her immigrant origin is verified (or does anyone wish to challenge that?) - do we have any volunteers for counting the number of Elizabeth's royal descents?
Nathan

at least 22 relationship links between Elizabeth and King Edward III
Elizabeth Whetenhall
Generation 2
2 - Henry Whetenhall +1691/
3 - Lettice Tichborne 1667
Generation 3
5 - Anne Saunders 1637-1689
6 - Henry, baronet Tichborne 1624-1689
7 - Mary Arundell ca 1640-1698
Generation 4
11 - Catherine Jerningham 1622
12 - Richard, baronet Tichborne +1657
14 - William Arundell 1590-1653
15 - Mary Browne 1593-1692
Generation 5
22 - John Jerningham +1636
25 - Amphillis Weston +1581/
28 - Thomas le Vaillant, Baron Arundell 1560-1639
29 - Mary Wriothesley 1572-1607
30 - Anthony Mary Browne, Viscount Montagu 1573/1574-1629
Generation 6
44 - Henry Jerningham +1646
45 - Eleanor Throckmorton
50 - Richard Weston +1572
56 - Matthew Arundell 1535-1598
57 - Margaret Willoughby 1544-1578
59 - Mary Browne 1552-1607
60 - Anthony Browne 1552-1592
Generation 7
89 - Eleanor Dacre
90 - Thomas Throckmorton 1533-1614
101 - Cecily Nevill 1493
112 - Thomas Arundell 1500-1552
115 - Anne Grey ca 1514-1548
118 - Anthony Browne, Viscount Montagu 1529-1592
119 - Jane Ratcliffe ca 1532-1552
Generation 8
178 - William Dacre, Baron Dacre of Gillesland 1500-1563
179 - Elizabeth Talbot +1552
180 - Robert Throckmorton ca 1513-1581
202 - Ralph, Lord Nevill +1498
225 - Eleanor Grey 1478-/1507
230 - Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset 1477-1530
236 - Anthony Browne 1500-1548
239 - Margaret Stanley 1512-1534/
Generation 9
357 - Elizabeth Greystock 1471-1516
358 - George Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury 1468-1538
359 - Anne Hastings 1471-1507
361 - Anna Catherine Vaux 1488-1571
404 - Ralph Nevill, Earl of Westmorland 1456-1523
451 - Cicely Bonville 1461-1529
473 - Lucy Nevill 1468-1534
478 - Thomas Stanley, Earl of Derby 1484-1521
479 - Anne Hastings 1490-1550
Generation 10
714 - Robert Greystock +1483
715 - Elizabeth Grey +1472
717 - Catherine Stafford 1437-1476
719 - Katherine Nevill ca 1442-1504
723 - Elizabeth Fitzhugh 1462-ca 1506
809 - Anne Holland 1432-1486
946 - John Nevill, Marquess Montagu 1429-1471
956 - George Stanley, Lord Strange 1460-1497
958 - Edward, Lord Hastings 1466-1506
959 - Mary, Baroness Hungerford 1467-1533
Generation 11
1,428 - Ralph, baron Greystock 1414-1487
1,430 - Edmund Grey, Baron Grey de Ruthyn 1416-1490
1,431 - Katherine Percy 1423-1493
1,434 - Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham 1402-1460
1,435 - Anne Nevill 1408-1480
1,438 - Richard Nevill, Earl of Salisbury 1400-1460
1,447 - Alice Nevill 1436-1476
1,618 - John Holland, Duke of Exeter 1395-1447
1,619 - Anne Stafford ca 1400-1432
1,913 - Eleanor Nevill 1436-1471
1,919 - Anne Percy 1444-1522
Generation 12
2,857 - Elizabeth Ferrers 1392-1434
2,861 - Constance Holland 1387-1437
2,862 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1393-1455
2,863 - Eleanor Nevill 1403-1472
2,869 - Anne Plantagenêt 1383-1438
2,871 - Joan Beaufort ca 1379-1440
3,237 - Elizabeth Plantagenêt ca 1364-1425
3,838 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1421-1461
Generation 13
5,725 - Elizabeth Mortimer 1371-1417
5,738 - Thomas of Woodstock, Duke of Gloucester 1356-1397
5,742 - John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster 1340-1399
Generation 14
11,451 - Philippa of Clarence 1355-1382
11,476 - Edward III of Windsor, King of England 1312-1377
Generation 15
22,902 - Lionel of Antwerp, Duke of Clarence 1338-1368

Olivier, you can add at least two more Edward III descents for Elizbathe Whetenhall Rozer. Thomas Whetenhall, who appears in position 32 of the ancestor list that started this thread, is noted there to be the son of George Whetenhall and Alice Berkeley. This latter couple is in the Roglo database which you use and is shown there to have two descents from Edward III.

[Olivier]

Post by John Higgins
Olivier, you can add at least two more Edward III descents for Elizbathe Whetenhall Rozer. Thomas Whetenhall, who appears in position 32 of the ancestor list that started this thread, is noted there to be the son of George Whetenhall and Alice Berkeley. This latter couple is in the Roglo database which you use and is shown there to have two descents from Edward III.

Thanks a lot, John, for the new link to King Edward III

[John Higgins]

Post by Olivier

Post by Nathan Murphy
Now that her immigrant origin is verified (or does anyone wish to challenge that?) - do we have any volunteers for counting the number of Elizabeth's royal descents?
Nathan

at least 22 relationship links between Elizabeth and King Edward III
Elizabeth Whetenhall
Generation 2
2 - Henry Whetenhall +1691/
3 - Lettice Tichborne 1667
Generation 3
5 - Anne Saunders 1637-1689
6 - Henry, baronet Tichborne 1624-1689
7 - Mary Arundell ca 1640-1698
Generation 4
11 - Catherine Jerningham 1622
12 - Richard, baronet Tichborne +1657
14 - William Arundell 1590-1653
15 - Mary Browne 1593-1692
Generation 5
22 - John Jerningham +1636
25 - Amphillis Weston +1581/
28 - Thomas le Vaillant, Baron Arundell 1560-1639
29 - Mary Wriothesley 1572-1607
30 - Anthony Mary Browne, Viscount Montagu 1573/1574-1629
Generation 6
44 - Henry Jerningham +1646
45 - Eleanor Throckmorton
50 - Richard Weston +1572
56 - Matthew Arundell 1535-1598
57 - Margaret Willoughby 1544-1578
59 - Mary Browne 1552-1607
60 - Anthony Browne 1552-1592
Generation 7
89 - Eleanor Dacre
90 - Thomas Throckmorton 1533-1614
101 - Cecily Nevill 1493
112 - Thomas Arundell 1500-1552
115 - Anne Grey ca 1514-1548
118 - Anthony Browne, Viscount Montagu 1529-1592
119 - Jane Ratcliffe ca 1532-1552
Generation 8
178 - William Dacre, Baron Dacre of Gillesland 1500-1563
179 - Elizabeth Talbot +1552
180 - Robert Throckmorton ca 1513-1581
202 - Ralph, Lord Nevill +1498
225 - Eleanor Grey 1478-/1507
230 - Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset 1477-1530
236 - Anthony Browne 1500-1548
239 - Margaret Stanley 1512-1534/
Generation 9
357 - Elizabeth Greystock 1471-1516
358 - George Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury 1468-1538
359 - Anne Hastings 1471-1507
361 - Anna Catherine Vaux 1488-1571
404 - Ralph Nevill, Earl of Westmorland 1456-1523
451 - Cicely Bonville 1461-1529
473 - Lucy Nevill 1468-1534
478 - Thomas Stanley, Earl of Derby 1484-1521
479 - Anne Hastings 1490-1550
Generation 10
714 - Robert Greystock +1483
715 - Elizabeth Grey +1472
717 - Catherine Stafford 1437-1476
719 - Katherine Nevill ca 1442-1504
723 - Elizabeth Fitzhugh 1462-ca 1506
809 - Anne Holland 1432-1486
946 - John Nevill, Marquess Montagu 1429-1471
956 - George Stanley, Lord Strange 1460-1497
958 - Edward, Lord Hastings 1466-1506
959 - Mary, Baroness Hungerford 1467-1533
Generation 11
1,428 - Ralph, baron Greystock 1414-1487
1,430 - Edmund Grey, Baron Grey de Ruthyn 1416-1490
1,431 - Katherine Percy 1423-1493
1,434 - Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham 1402-1460
1,435 - Anne Nevill 1408-1480
1,438 - Richard Nevill, Earl of Salisbury 1400-1460
1,447 - Alice Nevill 1436-1476
1,618 - John Holland, Duke of Exeter 1395-1447
1,619 - Anne Stafford ca 1400-1432
1,913 - Eleanor Nevill 1436-1471
1,919 - Anne Percy 1444-1522
Generation 12
2,857 - Elizabeth Ferrers 1392-1434
2,861 - Constance Holland 1387-1437
2,862 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1393-1455
2,863 - Eleanor Nevill 1403-1472
2,869 - Anne Plantagenêt 1383-1438
2,871 - Joan Beaufort ca 1379-1440
3,237 - Elizabeth Plantagenêt ca 1364-1425
3,838 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1421-1461
Generation 13
5,725 - Elizabeth Mortimer 1371-1417
5,738 - Thomas of Woodstock, Duke of Gloucester 1356-1397
5,742 - John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster 1340-1399
Generation 14
11,451 - Philippa of Clarence 1355-1382
11,476 - Edward III of Windsor, King of England 1312-1377
Generation 15
22,902 - Lionel of Antwerp, Duke of Clarence 1338-1368

It should be noted that 2 of the 22 Edward III descents mentioned above (and shown in the Roglo database) depend on a parentage which is subject to considerable question. #50 above is Sir Richard Weston, Justice of the Common Pleas (d. 1572). The assertion that his mother was Cecily Nevill, of the family of the Earls of Westmorland, has been discussed at length in this group, first in November and December 2011 and then again in February and March 2014. There were strong opinions on both sides in this discussion, but my conclusion was that the identification of Sir Richard's mother as Cecily Nevill is not adequately supported and is likely based on a fraudulent pedigree commissioned by Sir Richard's grandson. I'm sure others may still hold differing opinions on this point, but I'd suggest that for now the entry in Roglo regarding Sir Richard's supposed parents be eliminated.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Olivier

Post by Nathan Murphy
Now that her immigrant origin is verified (or does anyone wish to challenge that?) - do we have any volunteers for counting the number of Elizabeth's royal descents?
Nathan

at least 22 relationship links between Elizabeth and King Edward III
Elizabeth Whetenhall
Generation 2
2 - Henry Whetenhall +1691/
3 - Lettice Tichborne 1667
Generation 3
5 - Anne Saunders 1637-1689
6 - Henry, baronet Tichborne 1624-1689
7 - Mary Arundell ca 1640-1698
Generation 4
11 - Catherine Jerningham 1622
12 - Richard, baronet Tichborne +1657
14 - William Arundell 1590-1653
15 - Mary Browne 1593-1692
Generation 5
22 - John Jerningham +1636
25 - Amphillis Weston +1581/
28 - Thomas le Vaillant, Baron Arundell 1560-1639
29 - Mary Wriothesley 1572-1607
30 - Anthony Mary Browne, Viscount Montagu 1573/1574-1629
Generation 6
44 - Henry Jerningham +1646
45 - Eleanor Throckmorton
50 - Richard Weston +1572
56 - Matthew Arundell 1535-1598
57 - Margaret Willoughby 1544-1578
59 - Mary Browne 1552-1607
60 - Anthony Browne 1552-1592
Generation 7
89 - Eleanor Dacre
90 - Thomas Throckmorton 1533-1614
101 - Cecily Nevill 1493
112 - Thomas Arundell 1500-1552
115 - Anne Grey ca 1514-1548
118 - Anthony Browne, Viscount Montagu 1529-1592
119 - Jane Ratcliffe ca 1532-1552
Generation 8
178 - William Dacre, Baron Dacre of Gillesland 1500-1563
179 - Elizabeth Talbot +1552
180 - Robert Throckmorton ca 1513-1581
202 - Ralph, Lord Nevill +1498
225 - Eleanor Grey 1478-/1507
230 - Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset 1477-1530
236 - Anthony Browne 1500-1548
239 - Margaret Stanley 1512-1534/
Generation 9
357 - Elizabeth Greystock 1471-1516
358 - George Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury 1468-1538
359 - Anne Hastings 1471-1507
361 - Anna Catherine Vaux 1488-1571
404 - Ralph Nevill, Earl of Westmorland 1456-1523
451 - Cicely Bonville 1461-1529
473 - Lucy Nevill 1468-1534
478 - Thomas Stanley, Earl of Derby 1484-1521
479 - Anne Hastings 1490-1550
Generation 10
714 - Robert Greystock +1483
715 - Elizabeth Grey +1472
717 - Catherine Stafford 1437-1476
719 - Katherine Nevill ca 1442-1504
723 - Elizabeth Fitzhugh 1462-ca 1506
809 - Anne Holland 1432-1486
946 - John Nevill, Marquess Montagu 1429-1471
956 - George Stanley, Lord Strange 1460-1497
958 - Edward, Lord Hastings 1466-1506
959 - Mary, Baroness Hungerford 1467-1533
Generation 11
1,428 - Ralph, baron Greystock 1414-1487
1,430 - Edmund Grey, Baron Grey de Ruthyn 1416-1490
1,431 - Katherine Percy 1423-1493
1,434 - Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham 1402-1460
1,435 - Anne Nevill 1408-1480
1,438 - Richard Nevill, Earl of Salisbury 1400-1460
1,447 - Alice Nevill 1436-1476
1,618 - John Holland, Duke of Exeter 1395-1447
1,619 - Anne Stafford ca 1400-1432
1,913 - Eleanor Nevill 1436-1471
1,919 - Anne Percy 1444-1522
Generation 12
2,857 - Elizabeth Ferrers 1392-1434
2,861 - Constance Holland 1387-1437
2,862 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1393-1455
2,863 - Eleanor Nevill 1403-1472
2,869 - Anne Plantagenêt 1383-1438
2,871 - Joan Beaufort ca 1379-1440
3,237 - Elizabeth Plantagenêt ca 1364-1425
3,838 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1421-1461
Generation 13
5,725 - Elizabeth Mortimer 1371-1417
5,738 - Thomas of Woodstock, Duke of Gloucester 1356-1397
5,742 - John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster 1340-1399
Generation 14
11,451 - Philippa of Clarence 1355-1382
11,476 - Edward III of Windsor, King of England 1312-1377
Generation 15
22,902 - Lionel of Antwerp, Duke of Clarence 1338-1368

Notley Rozer & Elizabeth Whetenhall have at least
one famous descendant, through their son Henry :


http://genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00592356&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=10


Leslie

[Olivier]

Post by Nathan Murphy
Now that her immigrant origin is verified (or does anyone wish to challenge that?) - do we have any volunteers for counting the number of Elizabeth's royal descents?
Nathan

at least 22 links to King Edward III
Elizabeth Whetenhall

Generation 2

2 - Henry Whetenhall +1691/
3 - Lettice Tichborne 1667

Generation 3

5 - Anne Saunders 1637-1689
6 - Henry, baronet Tichborne 1624-1689
7 - Mary Arundell ca 1640-1698

Generation 4

11 - Catherine Jerningham 1622
12 - Richard, baronet Tichborne +1657
14 - William Arundell 1590-1653
15 - Mary Browne 1593-1692

Generation 5

22 - John Jerningham +1636
25 - Amphillis Weston +1581/
28 - Thomas le Vaillant, Baron Arundell 1560-1639
29 - Mary Wriothesley 1572-1607
30 - Anthony Mary Browne, Viscount Montagu 1573/1574-1629

Generation 6

44 - Henry Jerningham +1646
45 - Eleanor Throckmorton
50 - Richard Weston +1572
56 - Matthew Arundell 1535-1598
57 - Margaret Willoughby 1544-1578
59 - Mary Browne 1552-1607
60 - Anthony Browne 1552-1592

Generation 7

89 - Eleanor Dacre
90 - Thomas Throckmorton 1533-1614
101 - Cecily Nevill 1493
112 - Thomas Arundell 1500-1552
115 - Anne Grey ca 1514-1548
118 - Anthony Browne, Viscount Montagu 1529-1592
119 - Jane Ratcliffe ca 1532-1552

Generation 8

178 - William Dacre, Baron Dacre of Gillesland 1500-1563
179 - Elizabeth Talbot +1552
180 - Robert Throckmorton ca 1513-1581
202 - Ralph, Lord Nevill +1498
225 - Eleanor Grey 1478-/1507
230 - Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset 1477-1530
236 - Anthony Browne 1500-1548
239 - Margaret Stanley 1512-1534/

Generation 9

357 - Elizabeth Greystock 1471-1516
358 - George Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury 1468-1538
359 - Anne Hastings 1471-1507
361 - Anna Catherine Vaux 1488-1571
404 - Ralph Nevill, Earl of Westmorland 1456-1523
451 - Cicely Bonville 1461-1529
473 - Lucy Nevill 1468-1534
478 - Thomas Stanley, Earl of Derby 1484-1521
479 - Anne Hastings 1490-1550

Generation 10

714 - Robert Greystock +1483
715 - Elizabeth Grey +1472
717 - Catherine Stafford 1437-1476
719 - Katherine Nevill ca 1442-1504
723 - Elizabeth Fitzhugh 1462-ca 1506
809 - Anne Holland 1432-1486
946 - John Nevill, Marquess Montagu 1429-1471
956 - George Stanley, Lord Strange 1460-1497
958 - Edward, Lord Hastings 1466-1506
959 - Mary, Baroness Hungerford 1467-1533

Generation 11

1,428 - Ralph, baron Greystock 1414-1487
1,430 - Edmund Grey, Baron Grey de Ruthyn 1416-1490
1,431 - Katherine Percy 1423-1493
1,434 - Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham 1402-1460
1,435 - Anne Nevill 1408-1480
1,438 - Richard Nevill, Earl of Salisbury 1400-1460
1,447 - Alice Nevill 1436-1476
1,618 - John Holland, Duke of Exeter 1395-1447
1,619 - Anne Stafford ca 1400-1432
1,913 - Eleanor Nevill 1436-1471
1,919 - Anne Percy 1444-1522

Generation 12

2,857 - Elizabeth Ferrers 1392-1434
2,861 - Constance Holland 1387-1437
2,862 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1393-1455
2,863 - Eleanor Nevill 1403-1472
2,869 - Anne Plantagenêt 1383-1438
2,871 - Joan Beaufort ca 1379-1440
3,237 - Elizabeth Plantagenêt ca 1364-1425
3,838 - Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland 1421-1461

Generation 13

5,725 - Elizabeth Mortimer 1371-1417
5,738 - Thomas of Woodstock Plantagenêt, Duke of Gloucester 1356-1397
5,742 - John of Gaunt Plantagenêt, Duke of Lancaster 1340-1399

Generation 14

11,451 - Philippa Plantagenêt 1355-1382
11,476 - Edward III of Windsor Plantagenêt, King of England 1312-1377

Generation 15

22,902 - Lionel of Antwerp Plantagenêt, Duke of Clarence 1338-1368

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Nathan Murphy
Now that her immigrant origin is verified (or does anyone wish to challenge that?) - do we have any volunteers for counting the number of Elizabeth's royal descents?
Nathan

A quick check sees at least 17 descents from Edward III

[Polly]

Post by Nathan Murphy

Post by Polly
So, I take it, no smoking gun but lots of circumstantial evidence suggesting that Elizabeth Whetenhall and her brother Dr. John were likely Henry Whetenhall and Lettice Tichborne's children?

Further connections between the Rozers of Maryland and Thomas Whetenhall of Brussels (known brother of Jesuit Henry Whetenhall of Maryland).
In her will, dated 10 October 1732, Elizabeth [Whetenhall] Rozer, of Prince George’s County, Maryland left £100 to her minor son Henry Rozer to “be Sent to Europe there to be educated.”
Source: Will of Elizabeth Rozer, Prince George’s County, Maryland, dated 10 October 1732, Prerogative Court of Maryland Will Book 20:674-676; online images, Ancestry; http://interactive.ancestry.com/9068/007737520_00826/393806
Hodie Coram me Notario Publico in Consilio Brabantiz admisso Comparuerunt Dominies Joannes Carroll et Dominies henricus Rozer et Thomas Whetenhall ut Testes qui quidem Joannes Carroll in presentia mea et supradictorum ^Testium^ has presentes Litteras manu Signavit Siguo munisit et declaravit se ut actum Spontaneum eas de de sse and opus ibis in Cottentum in ujus rei fidem hoc attestor Bruxellis decimo octavo January anno millesimo septingintesimo Sexagesimo

Daniel Carroll AFAICT married Anne Rozer (1711-1764) and so was the son-in-law of Notley Rozer, but not of Notley's second wife Elizabeth Whetenhall. Anne was Notley's daughter by his first wife, Jane Digges (b. 1674 - d. bef abt. 1720).

Post by Nathan Murphy
The only adult Henry Rozer in the family at this time was Henry, son of Notley and Elizabeth (Whetenhall) Rozer. The only Thomas Whetenhall was the last surname bearer in the family who lived in Brussels (see previous post). Thomas would have been Henry’s brother-in-law.

I think if this is correct, Thomas Whetenhall (d. 1768) was not Henry Rozer's brother in law but his uncle, brother of Henry's mother Elizabeth...? Henry Rozer (c. 1720-1802) married Eleanor Neale (1734-1798), daughter of Edward Neale (1704-1760) and Mary Lowe (d. bef. 1729)...Thomas (d. 1768) wasn't quite the last of the Whetenhalls, as his priest brother James appears to have lived until 1773 (Biographies of English Catholics in the Eighteenth Century https://www.hathitrust.org/). But I guess Thomas d. 1768 didn't leave any children...

Post by Nathan Murphy
16 Januarij 1768 Eulijck[?] met 16 heeren ad Benedictinas Anglas Monsr. Thomas Whetenhal Ecuier Woonende in het [?] Clooster der Engelsche Benedictinerssen[?] pro jure palla in toto pro Cap 6=13 pro oblatis 0=19
Source: Sint-Jacob-op-Koudenberg, Brussels, Belgium, Catholic parish registers; online image, Les archives de l’État en Belgique; http://search.arch.be/fr/rechercher-des-archives/resultats/inventaris/rabscan/eadid/BE-A0541_006325_006218_FRE/inventarisnr/I0063250062181887/level/file/scan-index/8/foto/541_9998_998_00170_000_0_0008_r (Image 17 of 282 - requires free registration).
met=with
heeren=Messrs
wonende=residing
het=the
monseigneur=my lord
ecuier=esquire
clooster=cloister
Engelsche=English

Does this mean that this Thomas was also a priest?

Post by Nathan Murphy
In an article on the East Peckham Whetenhall family published in the February 1993 issue of Catholic Ancestor, the author notes Thomas went to Rome to be educated and was then expelled. He couldn’t trace him further and states the family disappears from Kent. Curiously, he also states Henry and Lettice (Tichbourne) Whetenhall had seven children, but only names Henry, James, Thomas, and states two were nuns. That is five children. Who were the others and what are his sources?

I've found only six...Henry, James, Thomas, Catherine (nun; in religion Maura), and now Dr. John and Elizabeth Whetenhall Rozer...Who were the nuns (https://wwtn.history.qmul.ac.uk/) lists three Whetenhall nuns, Catherine Maura, dau. of Henry and Lettice; Elizabeth Anne, dau. of Thomas Whetenhall (d. 1692) and Anne Saunders (d. 1689) and therefore sister of the Henry married to Lettice Tichborne; and another Catherine "in religion Mary Placida," b. 1699, d. 1752). "This lady was evidently a kinswoman of Catherine Whetenhall abbess of Brussels, who was daughter of Henry Whetenhall and his wife Lettice Tichborne. She was also kinswoman of Elizabeth Anne Whetenhall, who declared herself daughter of Thomas Whetenhall and Anne Saunders of Shankton and is said to have had a younger sister Catherine who died a pensioner at Paris in 1717. The three nuns were born between 1693 and 1699, with this lady the youngest. Probably they were cousins and two of them were sisters. Without further research the matter cannot be settled." I suppose it's possible that Henry and Leticia had two daughters named Catherine, both of them nuns, thus making the seven kids and two nuns reported in the Catholic Ancestor article....

Post by Nathan Murphy
Source: Fr Michael Clifton, ‘The Whetenhalls - An Obscure Kent Family,’ Catholic Ancestor, Vol. 4, No. 4 (February 1993), 144-147.

Again, Nathan, thanks for all the great information! Polly

[Nathan Murphy]

Great points. My mistakes. I also found a son of Henry and Lettice named George who was educated in Lisbon, Portugal.

Also, in my Hearth Tax reference, it should say page 98.

Best,

Nathan

[Polly]

Post by Nathan Murphy

Post by Polly
So, I take it, no smoking gun but lots of circumstantial evidence suggesting that Elizabeth Whetenhall and her brother Dr. John were likely Henry Whetenhall and Lettice Tichborne's children?

Smoking gun found - inheritance of family portraits. These verify the Marylanders descent from the Whetenhalls of East Peckham, Kent, England. The portraits of Sir Thomas Whetenhall of East Peckham and his wife Eliza are in Maryland. They have been in Maryland since at least 1802, and probably since 1727.
<My favorite portrait:> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39076000392469;view=1up;seq=510
Who were the subjects of these ‘family pictures of the Whitten Hall?’
Some are identified and one is illustrated in the February 1896 issue of The Century Magazine, at which time they were at the ‘drawing-room and library at Cheston [Maryland]:’
‘Mistress Katherine Wetenhall as a Magdalen; and the beautiful Mistress Eliza Wetenhall, whose charms of person, albeit she was stupid and listless are descanted upon with unction by Anthony Hamilton; and a portrait of Mistress Augusta Wetenhall by Leermans of Brussels. These found their way to the walls at Cheston through intermarriage of the De Courcys with the English families of Rozier, Notley, and Hall, people of much social consideration.’

I think the first may be Katherine Talbot Whetenhall (1630-1650), first of the three wives of Thomas Whetenhall (1626-aft Nov 1692) and daughter of John Talbot (d. 1653/54, 13th/10th earl of Shrewsbury. His courtship and marriage and her early death are described in the article in the Downside Review, 1896)...also see the excerpt from a diary kept by Charles Talbot (1660-1717/18), 15th duke of Shrewsbury, during his travels in 1700. Katherine was his aunt and he visited her grave in Padua. From Report on the Manuscripts of The Duke of Buccleuch, Vol. II, p. 789, https://books.google.com/

I think the second portrait may be Elizabeth Bedingfield Whetenhall, Thomas Whetenhall's second wife, and the same as the woman in the National Trust collection you cited...she is the woman so negatively described by Anthony Hamilton in his Mémoires de la vie du Comte de Gramont, 1713; here cited in the translation by Peter Quennel, 1930, pp. 265-276, 304-309, and 369. Are there two Lely portraits of her, one in England and one in Maryland...?

I haven't found an Augusta Whetenhall (third portrait) to date....

Post by Nathan Murphy
‘In Maryland also there are several Lelys, which have come down to the present generation in the De Courcey family. Three of them are the portraits of Sir Thomas Whetenhall, or Wetenhall, and his wife, Lady Eliza Whetenhall, also, Mrs. Katherine Whetenhall. The others are of the Saunders family.

If this is Thomas Whetenhall of the three wives, I haven't found any evidence that he was a knight...Is it likely he would be a knight given his recusancy? His grandfather was Sir Henry Whetenhall (d. 1625), knighted in 1603 by James I, but he was "a bitter Puritan" (Downside Review)...it was Sir Henry's son Thomas (d. 1631) who converted to Catholicism along with his younger brother Henry and his sister Anne...This Thomas is the father of Thomas-of-the-three-wives (d. 1692)...AFAICT neither Thomas father nor Thomas son were knights...?

Post by Nathan Murphy
‘The De Courcey’s inherited the Whetenall portraits through an inter-marriage with the Roziers, of “Notley Hall,” Maryland, an old English family in which is found the Whetenhall name and blood.’
Source: Kate Mason Rowland, ‘Old Portraits,’ Dixie: A Monthly Magazine, Vol. 3, No. 4 (April 1900), 239-254 (at 252-253); online images, Google Books; https://books.google.com/books?id=BZFEAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA252&lpg=RA1-PA252
http://www.nationaltrustcollections.org.uk/object/1210270
I have contacted the Society of Cincinnati Librarian and await a reply about the research undertaken on the Wetenhall paintings.
Nathan

It will be very interesting to learn of the Librarian's reply! Again, thanks for all your terrific investigating. Polly

[Nathan Murphy]

Post by Nathan Murphy
Who were the subjects of these ‘family pictures of the Whitten Hall?’

List of Wetenhall portraits from librarian at the Anderson House, Washington, D.C.:

Elizabeth Wetenhall (as the Magdalen)
Mrs. Catherine Wetenhall (54" x 46" framed)
Sir Henry Bedingfield
Catherine Margaret Wetenhall (37.75" x 32.75" framed)
Lady Augusta Wetenhall
Sir Thomas Wetenhall (39" x 34" framed)
Elizabeth Wetenhall (39" x 36" framed)
Lady Bedingfield
View of Notley Hall (8.75" x 11.25")
Sir Saunders (35.5" x 30.5" framed)

Other portraits in the collection include surnames De Courcy, May, and Coleman.

In a report the librarian included, it is stated "On all the Wetenhall portraits, the arms appear impaled with the armorial bearings of the wives." (Source: Wetenhall Family Portraits, Library, Anderson House, Washington, D.C.)

For anyone who wishes to have copies of this information, feel free to email me, ***@gmail.com.

Nathan

[e***@gmail.com]

Hello. My name is Elana Messner and I am trying to sort out the Maryland Rozier family tree.

Has anyone been able to find confirmation that Notley Rozier (1673-1727) married both Jane Digges and Elizabeth Whetenhall? Or have I read this thread incorrectly? I am trying to determine the relationship between Notley's & Jane's daughter Ann (m1. Daniel Carroll, m2. Benjamin Young) and, apparently, Notley & Elizabeth's son Henry (m. Eleanor Neale.)

Obviously they ought to be half-siblings but I cannot locate Notley's will or marriage records.

Thanks in advance.

-E

[Nathan Murphy]

Post by e***@gmail.com
Hello. My name is Elana Messner and I am trying to sort out the Maryland Rozier family tree.
Has anyone been able to find confirmation that Notley Rozier (1673-1727) married both Jane Digges and Elizabeth Whetenhall? Or have I read this thread incorrectly? I am trying to determine the relationship between Notley's & Jane's daughter Ann (m1. Daniel Carroll, m2. Benjamin Young) and, apparently, Notley & Elizabeth's son Henry (m. Eleanor Neale.)
Obviously they ought to be half-siblings but I cannot locate Notley's will or marriage records.
Thanks in advance.
-E

March 24th 1721[/2] Natly Rozier [married] Eliz[abe]the Whettenhall
[Witnesses:] Henry Whettenhall, Bronlow Dowty, Fras. Dowty, Anna Rozer
Source: Catholic Priest's Register, Westminster, England; Westminster Archdiocesan Archives, digital image, findmypast, subscription website, https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=prs%2fromcath%2fmar%2fwestm%2fph3%2f000211%2fg

Notley Rozer's will at Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/9068/007737520_00118/392643

Notley's widow Elizabeth Rozer's will at Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/9068/007737520_00826/393806



All the best,

Nathan

[Polly]

Post by Nathan Murphy

Post by Nathan Murphy
A. THOMAS WHETENHALL, ESQUIRE
‘Thomas was at the English College, Rome Oct 1709-Sept 1711 ... (CRS 40, 142).’
Source: Michael Sharratt, Lisbon College Register 1628-1813, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 72 (1991), 214-215.
1715
‘Henry Whetenhall, of East Peckham, Esq. - Freehold estate, his son Thomas acting with him - £243 6s. 6d.’ [with annotations]
Source: Edgar E. Estcourt and John Orlebar Payne, eds., The English Catholic Nonjurors of 1715 (London and New York, 1885), p. 85. https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE81217
1762
Thomas Whetenhall, Esquire, of Brussels, legatee in 1762 will of his sister Catherine Maura Whetenhall.
PCC 329 St. Eloi (1762) f. 283; http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_309769-00436/515582
‘Thomas Whetenhall, his brother, retired to the convent chaplain’s house (O.S.B.), Brussels, in 1761, as a boarder, and died there, January 13, 1768.’
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 5 (London, 1879), 802; https://archive.org/stream/RecordsOfTheEnglishProvinceOfTheSJv5#page/n878/mode/1up

Whetenhall-Symes (1716. 30 Juin). Thomas Whetenhall, gentilh. anglais, f. de Henry, et de feue dame Tichbourne. - Anne Symes, ff. de Jacques Symes, gentilh. de la ch[ambre] du Roi d’Angl. et de feue Elisabeth Nevill.
T.T. Guillaume Dicconson, contrôleur de la Maison de la Reine. Georges Colgrave, chevalier de St. Louis et d’Angleterre. Jean Ashton, gentilh.
S.S. Whetenhall. Symes. Ja. Symes. W. Diconson. Geo. Colgrave. Ashton.
Source: C. E. Lart, ed., The Parochial Registers of Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Jacobite Extracts of Births, Marriages and Deaths: With Notes and Appendices (London: The St. Catherine Press, 1912), Vol. 2, p. 25; https://archive.org/stream/parochialregiste02sain#page/25/mode/1up
Original record: (image 64 of 123)
http://archives.yvelines.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTYtMTEtMTYiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MTtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6NjMxODtzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=0%2C0&uielem_rotate=F&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=74
Nathan

[Polly]

Post by Nathan Murphy

Post by Nathan Murphy
A. THOMAS WHETENHALL, ESQUIRE
‘Thomas was at the English College, Rome Oct 1709-Sept 1711 ... (CRS 40, 142).’
Source: Michael Sharratt, Lisbon College Register 1628-1813, Catholic Record Society Pubs., 72 (1991), 214-215.
1715
‘Henry Whetenhall, of East Peckham, Esq. - Freehold estate, his son Thomas acting with him - £243 6s. 6d.’ [with annotations]
Source: Edgar E. Estcourt and John Orlebar Payne, eds., The English Catholic Nonjurors of 1715 (London and New York, 1885), p. 85. https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE81217
1762
Thomas Whetenhall, Esquire, of Brussels, legatee in 1762 will of his sister Catherine Maura Whetenhall.
PCC 329 St. Eloi (1762) f. 283; http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_309769-00436/515582
‘Thomas Whetenhall, his brother, retired to the convent chaplain’s house (O.S.B.), Brussels, in 1761, as a boarder, and died there, January 13, 1768.’
Source: Henry Foley, Records of the English Province of the Society of Jesus 5 (London, 1879), 802; https://archive.org/stream/RecordsOfTheEnglishProvinceOfTheSJv5#page/n878/mode/1up

Whetenhall-Symes (1716. 30 Juin). Thomas Whetenhall, gentilh. anglais, f. de Henry, et de feue dame Tichbourne. - Anne Symes, ff. de Jacques Symes, gentilh. de la ch[ambre] du Roi d’Angl. et de feue Elisabeth Nevill.
T.T. Guillaume Dicconson, contrôleur de la Maison de la Reine. Georges Colgrave, chevalier de St. Louis et d’Angleterre. Jean Ashton, gentilh.
S.S. Whetenhall. Symes. Ja. Symes. W. Diconson. Geo. Colgrave. Ashton.
Source: C. E. Lart, ed., The Parochial Registers of Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Jacobite Extracts of Births, Marriages and Deaths: With Notes and Appendices (London: The St. Catherine Press, 1912), Vol. 2, p. 25; https://archive.org/stream/parochialregiste02sain#page/25/mode/1up
Original record: (image 64 of 123)
http://archives.yvelines.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTYtMTEtMTYiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MTtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6NjMxODtzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=0%2C0&uielem_rotate=F&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=74
Nathan

[wjhonson]

Source 14 should not be used as a credible source. It is a compilation made up of some good sources and some awful sources.

[Polly]

Post by wjhonson
Source 14 should not be used as a credible source. It is a compilation made up of some good sources and some awful sources.

I agree. I generally use it more or less as a "place holder" until I can follow up and find a more trustworthy source.