Discussion:
Alan of Elsfield, contemporary and kin of Hugh Despenser - Harness Pendant found in 2005, depicting arms.
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r***@gmail.com
2017-05-14 23:38:31 UTC
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Alan of Elsfield has been mentioned here before, the informetion on him and especially this new info on his brother Richard of Elsfeld is hoped to be further explored.
Any help from the team here would be most apprecaited. The summary of some of the info seems to imply the kinship was based on his brother Gilbert of Elsfeld being one of Hugh Despenser's knight's, and therefore his arms were similar to Despenser arms. That does not quite fit in my mind and I would like the imput of the great minds here to try to settle this issue.

Richard of Elsfeld, brother of Alan of Elsfeild served as the Constable of Boreaux, Gascony from 1318-1320. I suspeect his appointemnt was arranged by Hugh Despenser to expand his influence. Richard's time in Gascony went very badly.

Source: Richard of Elsfield as Constable of Bordeaux, 1318-20
Esme Pole Stuart and Hilda Johnstone
The English Historical Review
Vol. 52, No. 205 (Jan., 1937), pp. 23-38

In 1327, Gilbert de Elsfield, who died in 1397, applied for a royal licence to ‘impark’ his wood at Elsfield which would give him the right to protect young trees from grazing animals and also to preserve his own deer. There is no written record to show that he actually did this but Cole concludes that the purlieu was made between Woodeaton and Elsfield running from the Islip road to the Cherwell, i.e. along the northern boundary of the parish. Gilbert also obtained a grant of free warren which gave him the right to hunt small game such as roe deer, rabbits, pheasant and duc

Gilbert de Elsfield, who sought to empark his wood, was the last man of his line, but his daughter Anne left a daughter Joan, who in 1407 married John Hore of Childerley in Cambridgeshire. Several generations later a daughter, called either Edith or Eliza, married as her second husband Rowland Pudsey, whose descendants were lords of the Manor until 1692.


Gilbert de Elsefeld (Elsfield)
Name(s): de Elsefeld (Elsfield), Gilbert
Addressees: King and council
Nature of request: [Petition badly damaged.]Gilbert de Elsefeld states that John de Seynte Eleyne, who married Juliana de Elsefeld, grandmother of the said Gilbert, had leased to Adam de Stretton £10 of land in Blunsdon for term of life and £5 of rent in the vill of Cricklade in the county of Wiltshire, of the dower of the said Juliana and of the inheritance of the same Gilbert. These tenements were seized into the hand of our lord the King, together with other lands and tenements of the said Adam, because of his forfeiture. [Gilbert and] John his father, son and heir of the said Juliana, have often sued by petition in parliament . . . our lord the King that that land and rent might be given to him as his . . . lord the king and his council that justice and reason be done to him . . . cannot have other estate in the said land and rent than the said Adam had.
Nature of endorsement: [Not visible, due to damage to ms, and it is impossible to tell whether there was ever an endorsement. This is the endorsement edited in Docs. Illus. English History p.32: 'The Treasurer, Barons and Chamberlains of the Exchequer are to be ordered by a writ of the great seal, containing the entire effect of the petition, to examine the memoranda and muniments in the Treasury which belonged to Adam de Stretton, and to inform themselves on what they can find concerning this business: and if that is not sufficient to determine the business etc., then they are further to inquire in the Exchequer, and they are to inform the King in Chancery of what they have found in the Exchequer or by that inquiry: so that he might further ordain a suitable remedy for the complainant etc.']
Places mentioned: Blunsdon, Wiltshire; Cricklade, Wiltshire
People mentioned: Juliana de Elsefeld; [John de Seynte Eleyne]; Adam [de Stretton]; John [de Elsefeld], son and heir of Juliana de Elsefeld.
Note: The Latin summary of the petition is enrolled on the roll of the October parliament of 12 Edward II (1318) (Docs. Illus. English History p.32).
Date: [? 1318]
Related material:

For another petition by the same petitioner on the same matter, see SC 8/178/8880

For the former reference number of a portion of this petition which has subsequently been reunited with this fragment, see SC 8/155/7702

For a much later but related petition, see SC 8/84/4158

For another petition by the same petitioner on the same matter, see SC 8/1/35

Source:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9062426

HARNESS PENDANT (found at Bushwood, Warwickshire)
Unique ID: WMID-6F4932
Object type certainty: Certain
Workflow status: Published
An incomplete cast copper alloy heraldic horse harness pendant with remains of enamelling, dating
to the 13th/ 14th century AD (length: 32.1mm; width: 20mm; thickness: 2.4mm; thickness at loop:
6mm; weight: 5.75g). This shield-shaped pendant has a suspension loop at the top that is due to
wear and corrosion and with decoration on the front only in the form of a black strip of enamel
running diagonally from the top left corner down to the right. There are three incised six-pointed
stars appearing at irregular intervals on along the black enamel, with the remains of red enamel to
the top and bottom fields of the decoration. There is no decoration on the back of the artefact. The
pendant is in a worn but fair condition with a dark green patina.
The heraldic pendant and its coat of arms have been studied by Irene Szymanski with the help of Jim
Halliday, who clarifies the following information:
‘The design is unique amongst recorded arms. The piece probably shows the arms of Alan Elsfield -
when new, the background would have been divided into four with two of the segments red (still
visible); the other two would have been silver. The red segments would have had a lattice pattern in
gold. The diagonal band (known heraldically as a "bend"), would have been black, and the stars
(mullets of 6) would have been gold (the whole thing is illustrated in the enclosed picture passed on
by Mrs Szymanski (arms1.jpg). The leftmost of Alan Elsfield's arms has "a fret" instead of "fretty" –
both arms are recorded, but I'm not sure which was on this pendant - I can see a diagonal line there, but that's about it. Elsfield was probably a knight of Oxfordshire; Elsfield is a few miles NE of Oxford itself. I say probably re Alan, because nothing is known of him other than his name, which occurs alongside a note of his arms in three places (Segar's Roll, circa 1282; The Lord Marshall's Roll, circa 1310; Collins' Roll, circa 1295). He wasn't necessarily alive at all of those dates, but it does place him broadly as a contemporary of Edward I, and presumably involved with that monarch's wars against the Welsh and the Scots. There are two men who share the name Elsfield, Gilbert and John, who are thought to have been related to Alan. Their arms are not identical, but similar; note how
they use the same palette of colours. Gilbert is known to have been a knight of Hugh Despencer's,and Alan's arms suggest that he was also. Again, if you look at the picture, you'll see that Alan's arms bear a notable resemblance to Despencer's arms; you expect this sort of similarity if there is an
overlord/knight relationship’.
Blazons of relevant arms:
• Alan Elsfield: quarterly argent, and gules fretty or, over all a bend sable charged with three mullets of six
• Gilbert Elsfield: barry undy argent and sable, a label gules
• Hugh Despencer: quarterly argent, and gules fretty or, over all a bend sable
I would like to say a big thank you to Irene Szymanski and Jim Halliday with their help in writing this record.
finds.org.uk
Sub class: heraldic
Subsequent actions
Subsequent action after recording: Returned to finder
Chronology
Broad period: MEDIEVAL
Period from: MEDIEVAL
Period to: MEDIEVAL
Date from: Post AD 1250
Date to: Ante AD 1320
Dimensions and weight
Quantity: 1
Length: 32.1 mm
Width: 20 mm
Thickness: 2.4 mm
Weight: 5.75 g
Discovery dates
Date(s) of discovery: Monday 11th July 2005
Personal details
Found by: This information is restricted for your login.
Recorded by: Ms Caroline Johnson
Identified by: Ms Caroline Johnson
Secondary identifier: Mrs Irene Szymanski
Materials and construction
Primary material: Copper alloy
Secondary material: Enamel
Manufacture method: Cast
Completeness: Incomplete
Spatial metadata
Region: West Midlands (European Region)
County or Unitary authority: Warwickshire (County)
District: Warwick (District)
To be known as: Bushwood
Spatial coordinates
Grid reference source: From finder
Unmasked grid reference accurate to a 100 metre square.
finds.org.uk
Discovery metadata
Method of discovery: Metal detector
General landuse: Cultivated land

Thank you..
Robert Spencer
a***@mindspring.com
2017-05-15 14:31:59 UTC
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'Parishes: Elsfield', in A History of the County of Oxford: Volume 5, Bullingdon Hundred, ed. Mary D Lobel (London, 1957), pp. 116-122. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/oxon/vol5/pp116-122 [accessed 15 May 2017].

"Hugh son of William of Elsfield granted away lands in Elsfield in the late 12th and early 13th century. (fn. 19) John of Elsfield, probably his nephew, (fn. 20) held ½ knight's fee in Elsfield of William of Stratford in 1242. (fn. 21) In 1254 Elsfield was said to comprise 5 hides of which John of Elsfield held 4 and St. Frideswide's 1. They both held of William de Stratford and the St. Frideswide's portion was held as 1/5 knight's fee although in 1242 it was held in free alms. (fn. 22) In 1279 John of Elsfield, presumably a different man, held four-fifths of the manor and had granted a life-tenancy of it to Margery de Bolehuth or Rillehitch. (fn. 23) In 1304 John of Elsfield settled the manor on his son Gilbert, subject to a life-tenancy for himself. (fn. 24) Gilbert was lord by 1316 (fn. 25) and settled the manor on himself and his wife Joan in 1323. (fn. 26) In 1327 he received a grant of free warren and licence to impark his wood at Elsfield. (fn. 27) The manor was held in 1350 by Joan of Elsfield, presumably Gilbert's widow, (fn. 28) and in 1369 by Thomas of Elsfield. Thomas made an exchange with the canons of St. Frideswide's in that year by which he gave them 74 acres of arable, with wood, meadow, and pasture, from his demesne, and they surrendered to him their fifth of the manor and all its appurtenant rights. (fn. 29) The manor thus became united in the possession of the Elsfields. In 1471 it was said that William of Elsfield, who died seised of the manor in 1398, was the son of Gilbert and Joan who held it in 1323, (fn. 30) so that he may have been a younger brother of Thomas. William left two coheirs. The first was a granddaughter, Joan, who was the daughter of his daughter Anne and had become the wife of John Hore. The other, also named Joan, was the surviving, and presumably younger, daughter of William of Elsfield. She was married to Thomas Loundres. (fn. 31) Nothing more is heard of this Joan, and the future of the manor belonged to John Hore's descendants. He came from Childerley near Cambridge, where the 15th-century chapel of his family's moated manor-house may still be seen. His son Gilbert died in 1453, leaving a son and heir, John, (fn. 32) who lived until 1471, leaving only an infant daughter, Edith. (fn. 33) Edith married twice. Her first husband was Thomas Fulthorpe of Barnard Castle (co. Dur.), who was alive in 1516; (fn. 34) the second, Rowland, son of Henry Pudsey of Barford and Bolton in Yorkshire, the son and heir of Sir John Pudsey, also came from the north, but his family acquired property in Worcestershire, and the Elsfield branch of the Pudseys were the descendants of William Pudsey of Langley (Warws.). "

FWIW

Doug Smith
Peter Howarth
2017-05-16 07:27:25 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Alan of Elsfield has been mentioned here before, the informetion on him and especially this new info on his brother Richard of Elsfeld is hoped to be further explored.
Any help from the team here would be most apprecaited. The summary of some of the info seems to imply the kinship was based on his brother Gilbert of Elsfeld being one of Hugh Despenser's knight's, and therefore his arms were similar to Despenser arms. That does not quite fit in my mind and I would like the imput of the great minds here to try to settle this issue.
Richard of Elsfeld, brother of Alan of Elsfeild served as the Constable of Boreaux, Gascony from 1318-1320. I suspeect his appointemnt was arranged by Hugh Despenser to expand his influence. Richard's time in Gascony went very badly.
Source: Richard of Elsfield as Constable of Bordeaux, 1318-20
Esme Pole Stuart and Hilda Johnstone
The English Historical Review
Vol. 52, No. 205 (Jan., 1937), pp. 23-38
In 1327, Gilbert de Elsfield, who died in 1397, applied for a royal licence to ‘impark’ his wood at Elsfield which would give him the right to protect young trees from grazing animals and also to preserve his own deer. There is no written record to show that he actually did this but Cole concludes that the purlieu was made between Woodeaton and Elsfield running from the Islip road to the Cherwell, i.e. along the northern boundary of the parish. Gilbert also obtained a grant of free warren which gave him the right to hunt small game such as roe deer, rabbits, pheasant and duc
Gilbert de Elsfield, who sought to empark his wood, was the last man of his line, but his daughter Anne left a daughter Joan, who in 1407 married John Hore of Childerley in Cambridgeshire. Several generations later a daughter, called either Edith or Eliza, married as her second husband Rowland Pudsey, whose descendants were lords of the Manor until 1692.
Gilbert de Elsefeld (Elsfield)
Name(s): de Elsefeld (Elsfield), Gilbert
Addressees: King and council
Nature of request: [Petition badly damaged.]Gilbert de Elsefeld states that John de Seynte Eleyne, who married Juliana de Elsefeld, grandmother of the said Gilbert, had leased to Adam de Stretton £10 of land in Blunsdon for term of life and £5 of rent in the vill of Cricklade in the county of Wiltshire, of the dower of the said Juliana and of the inheritance of the same Gilbert. These tenements were seized into the hand of our lord the King, together with other lands and tenements of the said Adam, because of his forfeiture. [Gilbert and] John his father, son and heir of the said Juliana, have often sued by petition in parliament . . . our lord the King that that land and rent might be given to him as his . . . lord the king and his council that justice and reason be done to him . . . cannot have other estate in the said land and rent than the said Adam had.
Nature of endorsement: [Not visible, due to damage to ms, and it is impossible to tell whether there was ever an endorsement. This is the endorsement edited in Docs. Illus. English History p.32: 'The Treasurer, Barons and Chamberlains of the Exchequer are to be ordered by a writ of the great seal, containing the entire effect of the petition, to examine the memoranda and muniments in the Treasury which belonged to Adam de Stretton, and to inform themselves on what they can find concerning this business: and if that is not sufficient to determine the business etc., then they are further to inquire in the Exchequer, and they are to inform the King in Chancery of what they have found in the Exchequer or by that inquiry: so that he might further ordain a suitable remedy for the complainant etc.']
Places mentioned: Blunsdon, Wiltshire; Cricklade, Wiltshire
People mentioned: Juliana de Elsefeld; [John de Seynte Eleyne]; Adam [de Stretton]; John [de Elsefeld], son and heir of Juliana de Elsefeld.
Note: The Latin summary of the petition is enrolled on the roll of the October parliament of 12 Edward II (1318) (Docs. Illus. English History p.32).
Date: [? 1318]
For another petition by the same petitioner on the same matter, see SC 8/178/8880
For the former reference number of a portion of this petition which has subsequently been reunited with this fragment, see SC 8/155/7702
For a much later but related petition, see SC 8/84/4158
For another petition by the same petitioner on the same matter, see SC 8/1/35
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9062426
HARNESS PENDANT (found at Bushwood, Warwickshire)
Unique ID: WMID-6F4932
Object type certainty: Certain
Workflow status: Published
An incomplete cast copper alloy heraldic horse harness pendant with remains of enamelling, dating
6mm; weight: 5.75g). This shield-shaped pendant has a suspension loop at the top that is due to
wear and corrosion and with decoration on the front only in the form of a black strip of enamel
running diagonally from the top left corner down to the right. There are three incised six-pointed
stars appearing at irregular intervals on along the black enamel, with the remains of red enamel to
the top and bottom fields of the decoration. There is no decoration on the back of the artefact. The
pendant is in a worn but fair condition with a dark green patina.
The heraldic pendant and its coat of arms have been studied by Irene Szymanski with the help of Jim
‘The design is unique amongst recorded arms. The piece probably shows the arms of Alan Elsfield -
when new, the background would have been divided into four with two of the segments red (still
visible); the other two would have been silver. The red segments would have had a lattice pattern in
gold. The diagonal band (known heraldically as a "bend"), would have been black, and the stars
(mullets of 6) would have been gold (the whole thing is illustrated in the enclosed picture passed on
by Mrs Szymanski (arms1.jpg). The leftmost of Alan Elsfield's arms has "a fret" instead of "fretty" –
both arms are recorded, but I'm not sure which was on this pendant - I can see a diagonal line there, but that's about it. Elsfield was probably a knight of Oxfordshire; Elsfield is a few miles NE of Oxford itself. I say probably re Alan, because nothing is known of him other than his name, which occurs alongside a note of his arms in three places (Segar's Roll, circa 1282; The Lord Marshall's Roll, circa 1310; Collins' Roll, circa 1295). He wasn't necessarily alive at all of those dates, but it does place him broadly as a contemporary of Edward I, and presumably involved with that monarch's wars against the Welsh and the Scots. There are two men who share the name Elsfield, Gilbert and John, who are thought to have been related to Alan. Their arms are not identical, but similar; note how
they use the same palette of colours. Gilbert is known to have been a knight of Hugh Despencer's,and Alan's arms suggest that he was also. Again, if you look at the picture, you'll see that Alan's arms bear a notable resemblance to Despencer's arms; you expect this sort of similarity if there is an
overlord/knight relationship’.
• Alan Elsfield: quarterly argent, and gules fretty or, over all a bend sable charged with three mullets of six
• Gilbert Elsfield: barry undy argent and sable, a label gules
• Hugh Despencer: quarterly argent, and gules fretty or, over all a bend sable
I would like to say a big thank you to Irene Szymanski and Jim Halliday with their help in writing this record.
finds.org.uk
Sub class: heraldic
Subsequent actions
Subsequent action after recording: Returned to finder
Chronology
Broad period: MEDIEVAL
Period from: MEDIEVAL
Period to: MEDIEVAL
Date from: Post AD 1250
Date to: Ante AD 1320
Dimensions and weight
Quantity: 1
Length: 32.1 mm
Width: 20 mm
Thickness: 2.4 mm
Weight: 5.75 g
Discovery dates
Date(s) of discovery: Monday 11th July 2005
Personal details
Found by: This information is restricted for your login.
Recorded by: Ms Caroline Johnson
Identified by: Ms Caroline Johnson
Secondary identifier: Mrs Irene Szymanski
Materials and construction
Primary material: Copper alloy
Secondary material: Enamel
Manufacture method: Cast
Completeness: Incomplete
Spatial metadata
Region: West Midlands (European Region)
County or Unitary authority: Warwickshire (County)
District: Warwick (District)
To be known as: Bushwood
Spatial coordinates
Grid reference source: From finder
Unmasked grid reference accurate to a 100 metre square.
finds.org.uk
Discovery metadata
Method of discovery: Metal detector
General landuse: Cultivated land
Thank you..
Robert Spencer
I am not convinced that the harness pendant with the arms 'quarterly plain and fretty, over all on a bend sable, three mullets', as described, "probably shows the arms of Alan Elsfield".

Firstly, we have no exact date for the pendant beyond an estimated period of seventy years (1250-1320) when such things were in high fashion. Alan de Elsfield is unknown except for mention in three rolls of arms dated by Gerald Brault to approximately 1285-1296.[1] This leaves plenty of time for the pendant to have belonged to someone else.

Secondly, the arms are not unique, as claimed. They may have been attributed to Alan de Elsfield in the three rolls of arms,[2] but they also appear on two different 13c seals used by a Hugh le Despenser.[3] There is no other direct evidence of arms for Hugh I le Despenser (d.1238) (who was a younger son), so it is possible that these seals were his. We know that his son, Hugh II (d.1265), bore the same arms without the mullets on the bend.[4] But alternatively, either he or his son, Hugh III 'the Elder' (d.1326), may have used the seals whilst they were still the heir apparent.[5] So it is always possible that the arms on the pendant were those of a Despenser rather than of Alan de Elsfield.

Thirdly, although such pendants were popular in the late thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, no pendants are extant in gold or silver to match the elaborate horse trappings used by the aristocracy. So it may be that most copper alloy pendants were used for the decoration of the horses of servants or retainers.[6] That the pendant was cast suggests that it was produced in numbers, and the enamelling would have been expensive. On that basis, the arms are more likely to be those of a baronial family like the Despensers rather than those of a younger son of a gentry family. This fits with the examples of heraldic pendants exhibited in the 1987 Royal Academy of Arts exhibition 'Art in Plantagenet England 1200-1400', all of which showed the arms of royalty, earls or barons.[7]

I would also stress the point made by Mrs Szymanski that Alan de Elsfield's use of a variation of the Despenser arms does not, of itself, indicate any kinship with that family. Many vassals, when adopting their new coats of arms, chose variations on the arms their lords already bore. One result was three large 'families' of similar arms based on either the Clare chevrons, the Warenne chequers or the Mandeville quarters. Nor does Alan's use of these arms preclude him from belonging to the same family as those Elsfields who bore 'barry wavy argent and sable'.[8]

Peter Howarth

[1] G J Brault, 'The Rolls of Arms of Edward I' (1997) i. pp 308, 324, 362. Mrs Szymanski's dates appear to be based on the pioneering work of Anthony Wagner, 'Catalogue of English Mediaeval Rolls of Arms' (1950, 1967). All such dates have to be based on an analysis of the names and their accession and death dates where we know them, bearing in mind that the compilers probably collected the entries over a period of time.
[2] Segar's Roll (c.1285) G 133, Lord Marshall's Roll (c.1295) LM 211, Collins' Roll (c.1296) Q 370
[3] PRO seals, cited Dictionary of British Arms ii. p 51. The same arms also re-appear in a 15c roll for Spencer (Shirley's Roll SHY 8), a roll of c.1510 for Sir Philip Despenser (Creswick's Roll CRK 1436) and as a quarter in the arms of the Wentworths of Nettlestead, all cited Dictionary of British Arms ii. p 52.
[4] seal: 1263, Douët d’Arcq, Collection de sceaux 10122; Matthew Paris Shields (c.1244) MP II. 58, Glover’s Roll (c.1253) B 114; he was descended from Geoffrey, dispensator to the E of Chester; cf. arms of the constables of Chester, e.g. Lacy: 'quarterly or and gules, a bend sable and a label argent'
[5] There are several examples where the heir apparent used a difference other than a label during his father's lifetime: e.g. John, 2nd Ld Segrave (d.1325), bore a red fleur de lis on his paternal lion, and Richard de Clifford of Appleby (d.1282 v.p.) had three silver cinquefoils on his fess.
[6] John Cherry in 'Age of Chivalry' ed. Alexander and Binski (1987) p 258
[7] see catalogue: 'Age of Chivalry' ed. Alexander and Binski (1987) pp 258-259
[8] For example, although the two Brewes brothers, William of Bramber (d.1291) and Richard of Stinton (d.1292), bore 'crusilly, a lion rampant' in differing tinctures, their younger brother, John of Glasbury (d.>1283), who acted as executor to Richard de Clare, 5th E of Hertford, bore the Clare chevrons with an engrailed border in blue.
r***@gmail.com
2017-05-16 09:29:44 UTC
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Thank you Peter for that very interesting lesson and the sources.

Would your line of thnking be altered reflect the fact that one the Hugh Desepnser's did name Alan de Elsfield as his "kin". Would he have called all his knights or vassals kin or just those for which he had a close affinity towards.

I find it interesting to see that a " Hugh,son of William", provided land to St. Frideswide from Elsfield land early on. In addition we know that Hugh Despenser I who died in 1238 had a son William, of which we know very little. In addition this same Hugh I had a brother William who married Juliana, but must have died with out issue as his nephew Hugh Despenser II, was his heir.

In Elsfield there is family of (Hugh's I,II and III) with dealings with this area. The Plessis family.

The "Hugh son of William" can not be Hugh de Plessis I, based on the pedigrees I have seen for that family unless they are in error.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the matter.

Thanks to everyone who contributed.

Robert Spencer
Douglas Richardson
2017-05-16 17:13:35 UTC
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My comments are interspersed below. DR

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 1:27:27 AM UTC-6, Peter Howarth wrote:

< I am not convinced that the harness pendant with the arms 'quarterly plain and < fretty, over all on a bend sable, three mullets', as described, "probably
< shows the arms of Alan Elsfield".
< Firstly, we have no exact date for the pendant beyond an estimated period of
< seventy years (1250-1320) when such things were in high fashion. Alan de
< Elsfield is unknown except for mention in three rolls of arms dated by Gerald < Brault to approximately 1285-1296.[1]

This is not a correct statement. See further below.
Post by Peter Howarth
I would also stress the point made by Mrs Szymanski that Alan de Elsfield's use of a variation of the Despenser arms does not, of itself, indicate any kinship with that family.
Alan de Elsfield was in fact related to Hugh le Despenser, presumably the elder:

Descriptive Catalogue of Ancient Deeds 4 (1902): 48 (Sir Alan de Elsefeld [Elsfield] styled “kinsman” by Hugh le Despenser in undated grant).

See the following weblink:

https://books.google.com/books?id=H1I4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Peter Howarth
2017-05-16 19:41:16 UTC
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Post by Douglas Richardson
My comments are interspersed below. DR
< I am not convinced that the harness pendant with the arms 'quarterly plain and < fretty, over all on a bend sable, three mullets', as described, "probably
< shows the arms of Alan Elsfield".
< Firstly, we have no exact date for the pendant beyond an estimated period of
< seventy years (1250-1320) when such things were in high fashion. Alan de
< Elsfield is unknown except for mention in three rolls of arms dated by Gerald < Brault to approximately 1285-1296.[1]
This is not a correct statement. See further below.
Post by Peter Howarth
I would also stress the point made by Mrs Szymanski that Alan de Elsfield's use of a variation of the Despenser arms does not, of itself, indicate any kinship with that family.
Descriptive Catalogue of Ancient Deeds 4 (1902): 48 (Sir Alan de Elsefeld [Elsfield] styled “kinsman” by Hugh le Despenser in undated grant).
https://books.google.com/books?id=H1I4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Thank you very much for the additional reference to Alan de Elsfield. It's unfortunate that it doesn't help any with the dating either of the pendant or of Alan himself. It does however give a tantalising genealogical connection between Alan and a Hugh le Despenser, something which the arms on their own don't necessarily give. So I'm happy to leave it to genealogists to discover the connection.

Peter Howarth
r***@gmail.com
2017-05-18 13:44:13 UTC
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Hi Peter, your need for more accurate date for Alan de Elsfield is shown in the following book as brother of Richard de Elsfield from which see see when he was appointed the Constable of Bordeaux.

In Great Britain. Public Record Office, H. C. Maxwell Lyte (Sir.)
Kraus Reprint, 1971 - Great Britain for the years (1321-1324), Alan de Elsfield is shown in the index as appearing on pages, 136,318,and 319, and it is followed by "Richard his brother" who also appears on page 318. that gives you the same time period for both brothers.

Source: Richard of Elsfield as Constable of Bordeaux, 1318-20

Esme Pole Stuart and Hilda Johnstone
The English Historical Review
Vol. 52, No. 205 (Jan., 1937), pp. 23-38

link to an excerpt: copy and paste!

https://academic.oup.com/ehr/article-abstract/LII/CCV/23/467434/Richard-of-Elsfield-as-Constable-of-Bordeaux-1318?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Richard of Elsfeld, brother of Alan of Elsfeild served as the Constable of Boreaux, Gascony from 1318-1320. According to the book his time here went very badly.

Robert

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