Discussion:
Further to the topic of this list's coverage
(too old to reply)
Richard Carruthers
2017-12-04 02:39:07 UTC
Permalink
While the list technically covers all aspects of mediaeval genealogy,
one sees that it has its areas of concentration. Lots of
Anglospherical (I use the term too loosely, and even semi-jocularly,
no doubt) genealogy, not so much of the rest.

The genealogical history of the rest of humanity is certainly worthy
of study for its own sake and not just when its intersects with the
Anglosphere.

Surely there are lots of scholars in Japan, Austria, Hungary, Russia,
Iran, Ethiopia, India, Israel, Indonesia, Samoa (to name a few), who
have invested and continue to invest a lot of time in these topics.
They also have colleagues in the Anglosphere interested in aspects of
Japanese, Austrian, Hungarian, etc., mediaeval genealogy. Even I have
heard of a few of them, and have used their works here and there,
where I have had the good fortune to come across them and to be able
to obtain them via hook by crook.

The descendant populations to whom many of these relate most directly
are probably mostly still outside the Anglosphere (I mean in their own
language communities and countries). (Not that one has to be a
descendant to find a given topic worthy of study, of course.)

No doubt they have lively discussions and exchanges of information
over the internet and via other means. Some of them doubtless interact
with scholars and other interested parties in the Anglosphere. Some
are probably even "here" in the 'sphere.

That said, perhaps they actively choose to make use of even more
specialised fora than this one. Doubtless this is to our general loss,
but I for one cannot see how it can really be remedied without some
more of their willing and active participation, and meaningful and
useful responses for their efforts.

Is it really sufficient to post the odd tidbit or topic that does not
relate to Ireland and the British Isles and their diaspora? On the
other hand, how does one encourage a wider reflexion here of the whole
topic of mediaeval genealogy?

Richard "Nothing Human is Alien To Me (well, enough of that, ed.!)"
Carruthers-Zurowski
syn Jozef syn Jan syn Ferdynand syn Janek syn Ludwik syn Antoni z
Lestowitza in West Gallizien (per German language R.C. m. banns,
Czernowitz/Cernauti/Chernivsti/ Chernovtsy, 1798)
P J Evans
2017-12-04 03:18:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Carruthers
While the list technically covers all aspects of mediaeval genealogy,
one sees that it has its areas of concentration. Lots of
Anglospherical (I use the term too loosely, and even semi-jocularly,
no doubt) genealogy, not so much of the rest.
The genealogical history of the rest of humanity is certainly worthy
of study for its own sake and not just when its intersects with the
Anglosphere.
Surely there are lots of scholars in Japan, Austria, Hungary, Russia,
Iran, Ethiopia, India, Israel, Indonesia, Samoa (to name a few), who
have invested and continue to invest a lot of time in these topics.
They also have colleagues in the Anglosphere interested in aspects of
Japanese, Austrian, Hungarian, etc., mediaeval genealogy. Even I have
heard of a few of them, and have used their works here and there,
where I have had the good fortune to come across them and to be able
to obtain them via hook by crook.
The descendant populations to whom many of these relate most directly
are probably mostly still outside the Anglosphere (I mean in their own
language communities and countries). (Not that one has to be a
descendant to find a given topic worthy of study, of course.)
No doubt they have lively discussions and exchanges of information
over the internet and via other means. Some of them doubtless interact
with scholars and other interested parties in the Anglosphere. Some
are probably even "here" in the 'sphere.
That said, perhaps they actively choose to make use of even more
specialised fora than this one. Doubtless this is to our general loss,
but I for one cannot see how it can really be remedied without some
more of their willing and active participation, and meaningful and
useful responses for their efforts.
Is it really sufficient to post the odd tidbit or topic that does not
relate to Ireland and the British Isles and their diaspora? On the
other hand, how does one encourage a wider reflexion here of the whole
topic of mediaeval genealogy?
Richard "Nothing Human is Alien To Me (well, enough of that, ed.!)"
Carruthers-Zurowski
syn Jozef syn Jan syn Ferdynand syn Janek syn Ludwik syn Antoni z
Lestowitza in West Gallizien (per German language R.C. m. banns,
Czernowitz/Cernauti/Chernivsti/ Chernovtsy, 1798)
Probably are not a lot of scholars on Ethiopia, and most of those on Iran may not be publishing.
Peter Stewart
2017-12-04 04:30:50 UTC
Permalink
On 04-Dec-17 1:39 PM, Richard Carruthers wrote:

<snip>
Post by Richard Carruthers
Is it really sufficient to post the odd tidbit or topic that does not
relate to Ireland and the British Isles and their diaspora? On the
other hand, how does one encourage a wider reflexion here of the whole
topic of mediaeval genealogy?
Going beyond Europe and the Middle East might prove to be a pipe dream.
Japan, Iran, Ethiopia and India may have some people who can trace their
families to medieval ancestors, but I doubt that they would expect to
meet with like-minded researchers here. We used to enjoy the online
company of experts from Poland and Russia who have withdrawn before now
(as far as I can tell), though I can't at the moment recall any former
participants from Austria or Hungary.

But the best way to gauge interest is to post a question or point out a
problem, and see what response (if any) this gets. My experience is that
I find myself talking to myself in public sometimes, and I shamelessly
persist because I want to put something or other into the archive. The
more diversity people find there, through the courtesy of Google search
algorithms or whatever else, the better.

Peter Stewart
Dee Horn
2017-12-04 20:30:14 UTC
Permalink
I have ancestors in Italy way back and would like to know if there is a list for them
Thank you



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j***@gmail.com
2017-12-04 22:05:02 UTC
Permalink
If they are medieval, you've found the right list. This is it!
Richard Carruthers
2017-12-05 01:05:34 UTC
Permalink
While I agree with you about the potential for a pipe dreaml, there
are those in "the West" (not just the Anglosphere) who study at least
the dynastic pedigrees of the various leaders of past societies, as
well as the "domestic" scholarly researchers of those societies and
their pasts. Certainly, I am aware that this is the case with India
and China.

I, for one, would welcome some serious attempts to substantiate their
long descents which, while sometimes semi-mythical (or outrightly so),
are backed by documentation, oral tradition, or what-have-you.

I suppose one problem is that scholars, wherever they may be, are
reluctant to contribute to a forum if it means revealing work they
hope to publish and for which they, quite naturally, and properly,
hope to gain proper credit.

Richard
Post by Peter Stewart
<snip>
Post by Richard Carruthers
Is it really sufficient to post the odd tidbit or topic that does not
relate to Ireland and the British Isles and their diaspora? On the
other hand, how does one encourage a wider reflexion here of the whole
topic of mediaeval genealogy?
Going beyond Europe and the Middle East might prove to be a pipe dream.
Japan, Iran, Ethiopia and India may have some people who can trace their
families to medieval ancestors, but I doubt that they would expect to
meet with like-minded researchers here. We used to enjoy the online
company of experts from Poland and Russia who have withdrawn before now
(as far as I can tell), though I can't at the moment recall any former
participants from Austria or Hungary.
But the best way to gauge interest is to post a question or point out a
problem, and see what response (if any) this gets. My experience is that
I find myself talking to myself in public sometimes, and I shamelessly
persist because I want to put something or other into the archive. The
more diversity people find there, through the courtesy of Google search
algorithms or whatever else, the better.
Peter Stewart
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Peter Stewart
2017-12-05 02:05:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Carruthers
While I agree with you about the potential for a pipe dreaml, there
are those in "the West" (not just the Anglosphere) who study at least
the dynastic pedigrees of the various leaders of past societies, as
well as the "domestic" scholarly researchers of those societies and
their pasts. Certainly, I am aware that this is the case with India
and China.
I, for one, would welcome some serious attempts to substantiate their
long descents which, while sometimes semi-mythical (or outrightly so),
are backed by documentation, oral tradition, or what-have-you.
I suppose one problem is that scholars, wherever they may be, are
reluctant to contribute to a forum if it means revealing work they
hope to publish and for which they, quite naturally, and properly,
hope to gain proper credit.
While I can understand not wanting to pre-empt publication, that is
often necessary since online pre-emption may actually prevent
publication, I don't see why they should fear losing proper credit: if
anyone plagiarises online material they will soon be found out, and so
will anyone who is dumb enough to publish non-plagiarised research
without checking the internet to see if this has been pre-empted by
someone else (or giving due credit if it has been).

But then, seeing how dumb people can be in the White House, moronically
dishonest and/or incompetent behaviour shouldn't surprise us in
academia, I suppose.

Peter Stewart

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