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Thwaites, John in or near Yorkshire, England
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Linda Tate Wilson
2017-06-08 01:42:05 UTC
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I have traced back in ancestry to John Thwaites, born in 1305 near Yorkshire, England and died in 1360 near Denton, Yorkshire, England. He had a son, Thomas Thwaites, born in 1330 and died in 1399 also in or near Denton, Yorkshire, England.

Has anyone here been on that line of Thwaites?
wjhonson
2017-06-15 16:55:41 UTC
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Post by Linda Tate Wilson
I have traced back in ancestry to John Thwaites, born in 1305 near Yorkshire, England and died in 1360 near Denton, Yorkshire, England. He had a son, Thomas Thwaites, born in 1330 and died in 1399 also in or near Denton, Yorkshire, England.
Has anyone here been on that line of Thwaites?
I would say your first problem, is that these particular birth and death years cannot be supported.

You need to come a bit forward in time, and *cement* your facts with reputable sources before you build a house of cards here.
Linda Tate Wilson
2017-06-17 00:09:35 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Post by Linda Tate Wilson
I have traced back in ancestry to John Thwaites, born in 1305 near Yorkshire, England and died in 1360 near Denton, Yorkshire, England. He had a son, Thomas Thwaites, born in 1330 and died in 1399 also in or near Denton, Yorkshire, England.
Has anyone here been on that line of Thwaites?
I would say your first problem, is that these particular birth and death years cannot be supported.
You need to come a bit forward in time, and *cement* your facts with reputable sources before you build a house of cards here.
Thanks for your input, for what it's worth. Troll much?
Vance Mead
2017-06-17 04:41:45 UTC
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It is not unreasonable to ask you to provide reputable sources.
Post by Linda Tate Wilson
Thanks for your input, for what it's worth. Troll much?
Linda Tate Wilson
2017-06-17 14:25:51 UTC
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I've used censuses, marriage and death records, as well as combined family records. Possibly that would be sufficient.
Vance Mead
2017-06-17 15:27:28 UTC
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The census will take you to 1801, the parish records (baptisms, marriages and deaths) to 1538 (with luck). Before that, the best place to start would be:
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/sources/olmed.shtml

And particularly the feet of fines:
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/search.php

Some useful sources (searchable and online) are :

Patent rolls:
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/search.html

Medieval soldiers:
http://www.medievalsoldier.org/database/maindbsearch.php

Legal records (common pleas):
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40_Indices.html

A couple more:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk
http://www.inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk

Also useful might be wills, tax records (lay subsidy and poll tax), but I’m not sure what’s available online or in print for Yorkshire.

I’m sure others here can recommend other sources.

Also, for many of these records, the spelling to check might be Thwaites, Thwaytes, Thweytes and other variations.
Post by Linda Tate Wilson
I've used censuses, marriage and death records, as well as combined family records. Possibly that would be sufficient.
Linda Tate Wilson
2017-06-18 23:40:24 UTC
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Thank you very much, Vance
Post by Vance Mead
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/sources/olmed.shtml
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/search.php
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/search.html
http://www.medievalsoldier.org/database/maindbsearch.php
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40_Indices.html
http://www.british-history.ac.uk
http://www.inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk
Also useful might be wills, tax records (lay subsidy and poll tax), but I’m not sure what’s available online or in print for Yorkshire.
I’m sure others here can recommend other sources.
Also, for many of these records, the spelling to check might be Thwaites, Thwaytes, Thweytes and other variations.
Post by Linda Tate Wilson
I've used censuses, marriage and death records, as well as combined family records. Possibly that would be sufficient.
John Watson
2017-06-17 06:03:47 UTC
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Post by Linda Tate Wilson
Post by wjhonson
Post by Linda Tate Wilson
I have traced back in ancestry to John Thwaites, born in 1305 near Yorkshire, England and died in 1360 near Denton, Yorkshire, England. He had a son, Thomas Thwaites, born in 1330 and died in 1399 also in or near Denton, Yorkshire, England.
Has anyone here been on that line of Thwaites?
I would say your first problem, is that these particular birth and death years cannot be supported.
You need to come a bit forward in time, and *cement* your facts with reputable sources before you build a house of cards here.
Thanks for your input, for what it's worth. Troll much?
Dear Linda,

To try and clarify.

About 1430, John Thwaites of Lofthouse, near Harewood, Yorkshire (died before October 1469) acquired the manor of Denton by purchase or grant. So earlier generations of this family were not from Denton.

This John Thwaites was almost certainly the son of Thomas Thwaites of Lofthouse who was living in 1411. There is very little information in contemporary records regarding earlier generations of this Thwaites family. A Thomas Thwaites died on 15 October 1356 holding land in Lofthouse and leaving a son and heir Robert aged 5 years. The generation(s) between Robert Thwaites and Thomas, father of John Thwaites is unclear.
See: Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 10, Edward III (1921), 292, No. 343.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol10/pp292-305

Do not trust "internet pedigrees" they are often based on imagination and guesswork.

Regards,

John
Vance Mead
2017-06-17 07:38:05 UTC
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I suppose this must be the same many in 1440?


Easter 1440, second full entry:
London. William Chapman versus John Thwaytes, of Lofthous, Yorks, gentleman, for debt (and others).

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no717/bCP40no717dorses/IMG_1905.htm
Vance Mead
2017-06-17 07:39:00 UTC
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I suppose this must be the same man in 1440?


Easter 1440, second full entry:
London. William Chapman versus John Thwaytes, of Lofthous, Yorks, gentleman, for debt (and others).

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no717/bCP40no717dorses/IMG_1905.htm
wjhonson
2017-06-19 19:49:33 UTC
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To be slightly more specific on the death range for John Thwaites of Thwaites, co York and also of Denton, and probably of Lofthouse, lawyer.

His will is dated 22 Jan 1461/2 so he was alive then
He was dead as you say in or by 1469
John Higgins
2017-06-19 20:47:36 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
To be slightly more specific on the death range for John Thwaites of Thwaites, co York and also of Denton, and probably of Lofthouse, lawyer.
His will is dated 22 Jan 1461/2 so he was alive then
He was dead as you say in or by 1469
According to one source, the will of John Thwaites dated 22 Jan 1461/2 was proved 10 Oct 1469. So, yes, he was dead by 1469 - unless someone has conflated two men named John Thwaites.

In another place, the same source says that the Thomas Thwaites mentioned separately was of Harewood in 1353 and of Goldsborough 1367. I don't know how accurate this is....
John Watson
2017-06-19 21:26:23 UTC
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Post by John Higgins
Post by wjhonson
To be slightly more specific on the death range for John Thwaites of Thwaites, co York and also of Denton, and probably of Lofthouse, lawyer.
His will is dated 22 Jan 1461/2 so he was alive then
He was dead as you say in or by 1469
According to one source, the will of John Thwaites dated 22 Jan 1461/2 was proved 10 Oct 1469. So, yes, he was dead by 1469 - unless someone has conflated two men named John Thwaites.
In another place, the same source says that the Thomas Thwaites mentioned separately was of Harewood in 1353 and of Goldsborough 1367. I don't know how accurate this is....
Thomas Thwaites of Lofthouse near Harewood died on 15 October 1356 holding land in Lofthouse and leaving a son and heir Robert aged 5 years.
See: Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 10, Edward III (1921), 292, No. 343.

He can't possibly be the same person as Thomas de Thwaites who was alive in 1367. This Thomas de Thwaites was of the Thwaites family of Long Marston, Yorkshire.

Westminster. Quindene of Michaelmas, 34 Edw. III, 1360. Richard de Goldesburgh, chivaler, quer., Thomas de Thwayt, def., of the manor of Goldesburgh except 40 messuages, 13 tofts, 2 mills, 3 bovates and 95 acres of land, and 14 acres of meadow in the same) : To hold to Richard for life ; remainder to Richard de Goldesburgh the "cosyn," and Joan his wife, and the heirs of their bodies ; remainder to the right heirs of Richard de Goldesburgh, chivaler.
Feet of Fines: CP 25/1/275/124, number 41.

Westminster. Octave of Michaelmas, 41 Edw. III, 1367. William de Nesfeld, quer., Thomas Thwayt of Merston and Margaret his wife, def., of 1 messuage, 120 acres of land, and 6 acres of meadow in Brereton: To hold to William and his heirs ; he gave 100 marks. Release by Thomas and Margaret for themselves and the heirs of Margaret.
Feet of Fines: CP 25/1/276/129, number 34.

Regards,

John
Vance Mead
2017-06-20 05:44:01 UTC
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Here are some 14th century Thwaytes in Common Pleas. Two entries for Tickhill (probably the same person) and one for Merston, No doubt they represent more than one family.

1381, Michaelmas, fifth entry:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT6/R2/CP40no483/483_0716.htm
Yorks. Thomas Thwayt, of York, one of the plaintiffs. Debt.

1381, Michaelmas, fifth entry, last entry
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT6/R2/CP40no483/483_0743.htm
Lincs. Thomas de Thwayt, of Tikhill (Yorks), plaintiff. Debt.

1396 Easter, third entry:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT6/R2/CP40no541a/bCP40no541adorses/IMG_0585.htm
Yorks. Executors of William Moubray, of Colton, versus William de Thwayt, of Merston, and others. Debt.

1396 Easter, last antry:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT6/R2/CP40no541a/aCP40no541afronts/IMG_0372.htm
Yorks. Hugh Bacon and Joan his wife, for license to concord with Thomas de Thwayt, of Tykhill, for land in Ravenfeld.
Linda Tate Wilson
2017-06-20 12:25:53 UTC
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Thank you so much for your help. As you can tell, I'm new to researching the far back.
wjhonson
2017-06-19 19:51:33 UTC
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There was also a Thomas Thwaites called of Harewood in 1353
and one, perhaps the same one called of Gainsborough in 1367
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