Discussion:
The Warrens of Ireland and France
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Paulo Canedo
2017-08-06 18:15:22 UTC
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In December 2015 there was a discussion about The Warren Family of Ireland and France whose member Patrice de Warren was used for Plantagenet Y DNA Test and gave an unexpected result however as said in the discussion there is a problem with Edward de Warren supposed son of John de Warren 6th/7th Earl of Surrey who removed to Ireland. I searched and found no evidence besides the one mentioned in the discussion about the existence of Edward de Warren as son of John de Warren and I also found problems with the possession of the Corduff Castle who is mentioned the genealogy that says that the castle was given to the family in the late 14th Century or in the early 15th century however in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduff it says that the castle was bought by the Warren family in the early 17th century and that had previously belonged to the de La Field family that causes big problems with the credibility of the genealogy. In my opinion the existence of Edward de Warren as son of John de Warren is highly unlikely if not impossible. Comments on the matter are welcome.
Paulo Canedo
2017-08-06 18:16:14 UTC
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Post by Paulo Canedo
In December 2015 there was a discussion about The Warren Family of Ireland and France whose member Patrice de Warren was used for Plantagenet Y DNA Test and gave an unexpected result however as said in the discussion there is a problem with Edward de Warren supposed son of John de Warren 6th/7th Earl of Surrey who removed to Ireland. I searched and found no evidence besides the one mentioned in the discussion about the existence of Edward de Warren as son of John de Warren and I also found problems with the possession of the Corduff Castle who is mentioned the genealogy that says that the castle was given to the family in the late 14th Century or in the early 15th century however in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduff it says that the castle was bought by the Warren family in the early 17th century and that had previously belonged to the de La Field family that causes big problems with the credibility of the genealogy. In my opinion the existence of Edward de Warren as son of John de Warren is highly unlikely if not impossible. Comments on the matter are welcome.
Also the page confirms that the Warrens of Ireland did move to France since they were Jacobites.
taf
2017-08-06 20:52:45 UTC
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Post by Paulo Canedo
In December 2015 there was a discussion about The Warren Family of Ireland
and France whose member Patrice de Warren was used for Plantagenet Y DNA
Test and gave an unexpected result however as said in the discussion there
is a problem with Edward de Warren supposed son of John de Warren 6th/7th
Earl of Surrey who removed to Ireland. I searched and found no evidence
besides the one mentioned in the discussion about the existence of Edward
de Warren as son of John de Warren and I also found problems with the
possession of the Corduff Castle who is mentioned the genealogy that says
that the castle was given to the family in the late 14th Century or in the
early 15th century however in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduff it
says that the castle was bought by the Warren family in the early 17th
century and that had previously belonged to the de La Field family that
causes big problems with the credibility of the genealogy. In my opinion
the existence of Edward de Warren as son of John de Warren is highly
unlikely if not impossible. Comments on the matter are welcome.
This seems to confuse two distinct problems in citing Corduff as a reason to think Edward was not son of John.

This line has not one, but two problematic connections. The first is that Edward Warren of Poynton was son of Earl John. This has been discussed here multiple times. Mr. Richardson has presented evidence that Earl John did indeed have a son Edward, but I have suggested that evidence this is the same Edward who founded the later Warren family is insufficient, and what there is would be equally explained by an alternative reconstruction that has been in print for years.

Separately, the descent of the Warrens of Ireland from this English Edward Warren of Poynton is itself completely without foundation as far as I can tell, seemingly derived from the worst tradition in name's-the-same pedigree invention. Whatever happened at Corduff, it only (possibly) addresses the descent of the Irish Warrens from Edward of Poynton. It has no bearing on whether Edward of Poynton was son of Earl John.

taf
Paulo Canedo
2017-08-06 21:40:54 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by Paulo Canedo
In December 2015 there was a discussion about The Warren Family of Ireland
and France whose member Patrice de Warren was used for Plantagenet Y DNA
Test and gave an unexpected result however as said in the discussion there
is a problem with Edward de Warren supposed son of John de Warren 6th/7th
Earl of Surrey who removed to Ireland. I searched and found no evidence
besides the one mentioned in the discussion about the existence of Edward
de Warren as son of John de Warren and I also found problems with the
possession of the Corduff Castle who is mentioned the genealogy that says
that the castle was given to the family in the late 14th Century or in the
early 15th century however in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduff it
says that the castle was bought by the Warren family in the early 17th
century and that had previously belonged to the de La Field family that
causes big problems with the credibility of the genealogy. In my opinion
the existence of Edward de Warren as son of John de Warren is highly
unlikely if not impossible. Comments on the matter are welcome.
This seems to confuse two distinct problems in citing Corduff as a reason to think Edward was not son of John.
This line has not one, but two problematic connections. The first is that Edward Warren of Poynton was son of Earl John. This has been discussed here multiple times. Mr. Richardson has presented evidence that Earl John did indeed have a son Edward, but I have suggested that evidence this is the same Edward who founded the later Warren family is insufficient, and what there is would be equally explained by an alternative reconstruction that has been in print for years.
Separately, the descent of the Warrens of Ireland from this English Edward Warren of Poynton is itself completely without foundation as far as I can tell, seemingly derived from the worst tradition in name's-the-same pedigree invention. Whatever happened at Corduff, it only (possibly) addresses the descent of the Irish Warrens from Edward of Poynton. It has no bearing on whether Edward of Poynton was son of Earl John.
taf
Actually those would be two different Edwards and two different Johns the Edward of Ireland would be son of the John de Warren who married Alice de Lusignan while Edward of Poynton would be son of that John's grandson John de Warren who was the last Warren Count of Surrey.
taf
2017-08-07 00:04:03 UTC
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Post by Paulo Canedo
Actually those would be two different Edwards and two different Johns the
Edward of Ireland would be son of the John de Warren who married Alice de
Lusignan while Edward of Poynton would be son of that John's grandson John
de Warren who was the last Warren Count of Surrey.
Ah, I have seen the Irish Warrens claim the other link. The point remains, though, that the Irish can't trace back to either Edward, so looking only at the parentage of Edward misses the bigger problem.

taf
Paulo Canedo
2017-08-07 09:53:41 UTC
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The thing about Edward of Ireland is not only his parentage but also his own existence.
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