Discussion:
Barbara Bush (1925-2018) a descendant of noble Latimer/Latymer family ?
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Olivier
2018-04-24 22:03:30 UTC
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“Mrs. Bush was descended from the Mayflower passenger Henry Samson whose ancestry has been traced to a noble Latimer/Latymer family and she is therefore distantly related to Prince William of Wales, the future King of England,” https://www.americanancestors.org/about/press-and-media/press-releases/barbara-bush

What is the link between Samson and the Latimer?
and the link from the Latimer to Prince William?
j***@albion.edu
2018-04-25 00:40:37 UTC
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Sources easily found in generally reputable places (TAG, GBRoberts, Doug Richardson, and corroborated by many others).
Bare essentials, no dates or titles:

1. Henry Samson/Sampson, Mayflower passenger, ancestor of Mrs. Barbara (Pierce) Bush
2. Martha Cooper & James Samson/Sampson
3. Edmund Cooper & Mary Wyne
4. Elizabeth Page & Michael Cooper
5. Cicily Greene & Robert Cooper
6. Edith Latimer & John Greene
7. Nicholas Latimer & Joanna Hody
8. John Latimer & Catherine Pipard
9. Robert Latimer & Margaret de Peche
10. Robert de Latimer & Catherine de Hull
11. John de Latimer & Johanna de Gouvis
12. William le Latimer & Alice Ledet

AND

1. Elizabeth II
2. Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon & George VI
3. Claude George Bowes-Lyon & Nina Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck
4. Claude Bowes-Lyon & Frances Dora Smith
5. Thomas Lyon-Bowes & Charlotte Grimstead
6. Thomas Lyon-Bowes & Mary Elizabeth Louisa Carpenter
7. Mary Eleanor Bowes & John Lyon
8. George Bowes & Mary Gilbert
9. Elizabeth Blakiston & William Bowes
10. Anne Bowes & Francis Blakiston
11. George Bowes & Mary Delaval
12. Margaret Bray & George Bowes
13. Edward Bray & Mary _______
14. Beatrice Shirley & Edward Bray
15. Ralph Shirley & Jane Bellingham
16. Ralph Shirley & Elizabeth Blount
17. Ralph Shirley alias Basset & Joan Basset
18. Beatrice Brewes & Hugh Shirley alias Basset (parents of Ralph)
19. Joan Howard & Peter de Brewes
20. Alice de Bois & John Howard
21. Christian le Latimer & Robert de Bois
22. William le Latimer & Alice Ledet


N.B.: Mayflower passenger Henry Samson has extensive medieval ancestry, but no proven royal ancestry.

Jim+
Olivier
2018-04-25 13:31:51 UTC
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Post by j***@albion.edu
Sources easily found in generally reputable places (TAG, GBRoberts, Doug Richardson, and corroborated by many others).
1. Henry Samson/Sampson, Mayflower passenger, ancestor of Mrs. Barbara (Pierce) Bush
2. Martha Cooper & James Samson/Sampson
3. Edmund Cooper & Mary Wyne
4. Elizabeth Page & Michael Cooper
5. Cicily Greene & Robert Cooper
6. Edith Latimer & John Greene
7. Nicholas Latimer & Joanna Hody
8. John Latimer & Catherine Pipard
9. Robert Latimer & Margaret de Peche
10. Robert de Latimer & Catherine de Hull
11. John de Latimer & Johanna de Gouvis
12. William le Latimer & Alice Ledet
AND
1. Elizabeth II
2. Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon & George VI
3. Claude George Bowes-Lyon & Nina Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck
4. Claude Bowes-Lyon & Frances Dora Smith
5. Thomas Lyon-Bowes & Charlotte Grimstead
6. Thomas Lyon-Bowes & Mary Elizabeth Louisa Carpenter
7. Mary Eleanor Bowes & John Lyon
8. George Bowes & Mary Gilbert
9. Elizabeth Blakiston & William Bowes
10. Anne Bowes & Francis Blakiston
11. George Bowes & Mary Delaval
12. Margaret Bray & George Bowes
13. Edward Bray & Mary _______
14. Beatrice Shirley & Edward Bray
15. Ralph Shirley & Jane Bellingham
16. Ralph Shirley & Elizabeth Blount
17. Ralph Shirley alias Basset & Joan Basset
18. Beatrice Brewes & Hugh Shirley alias Basset (parents of Ralph)
19. Joan Howard & Peter de Brewes
20. Alice de Bois & John Howard
21. Christian le Latimer & Robert de Bois
22. William le Latimer & Alice Ledet
N.B.: Mayflower passenger Henry Samson has extensive medieval ancestry, but no proven royal ancestry.
Jim+
thank you very much for these two lines. Being French, I am unfamiliar with medieval English families.
lmahler@att.net
2018-04-26 07:46:30 UTC
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Post by Olivier
Post by j***@albion.edu
Sources easily found in generally reputable places (TAG, GBRoberts, Doug Richardson, and corroborated by many others).
1. Henry Samson/Sampson, Mayflower passenger, ancestor of Mrs. Barbara (Pierce) Bush
2. Martha Cooper & James Samson/Sampson
3. Edmund Cooper & Mary Wyne
4. Elizabeth Page & Michael Cooper
5. Cicily Greene & Robert Cooper
6. Edith Latimer & John Greene
7. Nicholas Latimer & Joanna Hody
8. John Latimer & Catherine Pipard
9. Robert Latimer & Margaret de Peche
10. Robert de Latimer & Catherine de Hull
11. John de Latimer & Johanna de Gouvis
12. William le Latimer & Alice Ledet
AND
1. Elizabeth II
2. Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon & George VI
3. Claude George Bowes-Lyon & Nina Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck
4. Claude Bowes-Lyon & Frances Dora Smith
5. Thomas Lyon-Bowes & Charlotte Grimstead
6. Thomas Lyon-Bowes & Mary Elizabeth Louisa Carpenter
7. Mary Eleanor Bowes & John Lyon
8. George Bowes & Mary Gilbert
9. Elizabeth Blakiston & William Bowes
10. Anne Bowes & Francis Blakiston
11. George Bowes & Mary Delaval
12. Margaret Bray & George Bowes
13. Edward Bray & Mary _______
14. Beatrice Shirley & Edward Bray
15. Ralph Shirley & Jane Bellingham
16. Ralph Shirley & Elizabeth Blount
17. Ralph Shirley alias Basset & Joan Basset
18. Beatrice Brewes & Hugh Shirley alias Basset (parents of Ralph)
19. Joan Howard & Peter de Brewes
20. Alice de Bois & John Howard
21. Christian le Latimer & Robert de Bois
22. William le Latimer & Alice Ledet
N.B.: Mayflower passenger Henry Samson has extensive medieval ancestry, but no proven royal ancestry.
Jim+
thank you very much for these two lines. Being French, I am unfamiliar with medieval English families.
Is there anyone who is discovering and publishing
descents from medieval nobility in France ?

Leslie
John Higgins
2018-04-25 21:38:04 UTC
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Post by j***@albion.edu
Sources easily found in generally reputable places (TAG, GBRoberts, Doug Richardson, and corroborated by many others).
1. Henry Samson/Sampson, Mayflower passenger, ancestor of Mrs. Barbara (Pierce) Bush
2. Martha Cooper & James Samson/Sampson
3. Edmund Cooper & Mary Wyne
4. Elizabeth Page & Michael Cooper
5. Cicily Greene & Robert Cooper
6. Edith Latimer & John Greene
7. Nicholas Latimer & Joanna Hody
8. John Latimer & Catherine Pipard
9. Robert Latimer & Margaret de Peche
10. Robert de Latimer & Catherine de Hull
11. John de Latimer & Johanna de Gouvis
12. William le Latimer & Alice Ledet
AND
1. Elizabeth II
2. Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon & George VI
3. Claude George Bowes-Lyon & Nina Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck
4. Claude Bowes-Lyon & Frances Dora Smith
5. Thomas Lyon-Bowes & Charlotte Grimstead
6. Thomas Lyon-Bowes & Mary Elizabeth Louisa Carpenter
7. Mary Eleanor Bowes & John Lyon
8. George Bowes & Mary Gilbert
9. Elizabeth Blakiston & William Bowes
10. Anne Bowes & Francis Blakiston
11. George Bowes & Mary Delaval
12. Margaret Bray & George Bowes
13. Edward Bray & Mary _______
14. Beatrice Shirley & Edward Bray
15. Ralph Shirley & Jane Bellingham
16. Ralph Shirley & Elizabeth Blount
17. Ralph Shirley alias Basset & Joan Basset
18. Beatrice Brewes & Hugh Shirley alias Basset (parents of Ralph)
19. Joan Howard & Peter de Brewes
20. Alice de Bois & John Howard
21. Christian le Latimer & Robert de Bois
22. William le Latimer & Alice Ledet
N.B.: Mayflower passenger Henry Samson has extensive medieval ancestry, but no proven royal ancestry.
Jim+
Since the article quoted in the first post mentioned Barbara Bush's relationship to "Prince William of Wales, the future King of England", it may be worth noting that, in addition to the Latimer descent to QE2, there is also a Latimer descent to Princess Diana, mother of the Duke of Cambridge.

Edith Latimer, #6 in the first descent above, m. (1) John Greene as noted, and her 2nd husband (of 3) was Sir John Mordaunt (d. 1504). The descent from this couple to Princes Diana and her son can be easily traced in the Genealogics database through a long line of Mordaunts ending in Anna Maria Mordaunt who married Stephen Poyntz. The descent to Diana and William should be easy to find from there.
Olivier
2018-04-26 10:15:11 UTC
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Post by John Higgins
Since the article quoted in the first post mentioned Barbara Bush's relationship to "Prince William of Wales, the future King of England", it may be worth noting that, in addition to the Latimer descent to QE2, there is also a Latimer descent to Princess Diana, mother of the Duke of Cambridge.
Edith Latimer, #6 in the first descent above, m. (1) John Greene as noted, and her 2nd husband (of 3) was Sir John Mordaunt (d. 1504). The descent from this couple to Princes Diana and her son can be easily traced in the Genealogics database through a long line of Mordaunts ending in Anna Maria Mordaunt who married Stephen Poyntz. The descent to Diana and William should be easy to find from there.
http://roglo.eu/roglo?lang=en;m=RL;i=578351;i1=578351;i2=6313071;l1=0;l2=16,18;dag=on
P J Evans
2018-04-25 00:45:38 UTC
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Post by Olivier
“Mrs. Bush was descended from the Mayflower passenger Henry Samson whose ancestry has been traced to a noble Latimer/Latymer family and she is therefore distantly related to Prince William of Wales, the future King of England,” https://www.americanancestors.org/about/press-and-media/press-releases/barbara-bush
What is the link between Samson and the Latimer?
and the link from the Latimer to Prince William?
At WARGS.com, in the notes on the ancestry of G W Bush, see this note:
3148 - See the article by Robert Leigh Wood, "The Baronial ancestry of Henry Sampson, Humilty Cooper, and Ann (Cooper) Tilley", in The Genealogist [APSG], Vol. 6, No. 2 (Fall 1985), pp. 166-186, for some of the ancestors and relatives of Mayflower passenger Henry Sampson.
wjhonson
2018-04-25 16:37:23 UTC
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I would appreciate, would someone give some accessible sources for Nicholas Latimer of Duntish, mentioned in this post.
John Higgins
2018-04-25 21:13:56 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
I would appreciate, would someone give some accessible sources for Nicholas Latimer of Duntish, mentioned in this post.
The TG article on Henry Sampson already mentioned gives a short summary of this Latimer family (vol. 6, pp. 174-75) with sources listed on p. 185. The most accessible of the listed sources is probably John Hutchins, History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset, 3:704-707 - available online via the FHL.
Also cited by the TG article is the Latimer article in vol. 7 of CP, but it does not appear to cover the branch of the family which includes Nicholas Latimer, the object of your interest.
wjhonson
2018-04-26 17:21:31 UTC
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Post by John Higgins
Post by wjhonson
I would appreciate, would someone give some accessible sources for Nicholas Latimer of Duntish, mentioned in this post.
The TG article on Henry Sampson already mentioned gives a short summary of this Latimer family (vol. 6, pp. 174-75) with sources listed on p. 185. The most accessible of the listed sources is probably John Hutchins, History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset, 3:704-707 - available online via the FHL.
Also cited by the TG article is the Latimer article in vol. 7 of CP, but it does not appear to cover the branch of the family which includes Nicholas Latimer, the object of your interest.
If I include this link

https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?from=fhd&dps_pid=IE920035

can everyone see that directly without a search through the catalog?
wjhonson
2018-04-26 17:29:11 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Post by John Higgins
Post by wjhonson
I would appreciate, would someone give some accessible sources for Nicholas Latimer of Duntish, mentioned in this post.
The TG article on Henry Sampson already mentioned gives a short summary of this Latimer family (vol. 6, pp. 174-75) with sources listed on p. 185. The most accessible of the listed sources is probably John Hutchins, History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset, 3:704-707 - available online via the FHL.
Also cited by the TG article is the Latimer article in vol. 7 of CP, but it does not appear to cover the branch of the family which includes Nicholas Latimer, the object of your interest.
If I include this link
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?from=fhd&dps_pid=IE920035
can everyone see that directly without a search through the catalog?
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/StreamGate?is_mobile=false&from=fhd&is_rtl=false&dps_dvs=1524763255414~462&dps_pid=FL920039#page=740

Open sidebar, copy link location

Does this work to go directly to page 740 ?
Can someone go here to verify this?
taf
2018-04-26 20:32:28 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Post by wjhonson
If I include this link
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?from=fhd&dps_pid=IE920035
can everyone see that directly without a search through the catalog?
This is taking me to the book - at least it seems to be. These Rosetta sources always take forever to load.
Post by wjhonson
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/StreamGate?is_mobile=false&from=fhd&is_rtl=false&dps_dvs=1524763255414~462&dps_pid=FL920039#page=740
Open sidebar, copy link location
Does this work to go directly to page 740 ?
Can someone go here to verify this?
No. Gives me an error message.

taf
John Higgins
2018-04-26 21:18:39 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by wjhonson
Post by wjhonson
If I include this link
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?from=fhd&dps_pid=IE920035
can everyone see that directly without a search through the catalog?
This is taking me to the book - at least it seems to be. These Rosetta sources always take forever to load.
Post by wjhonson
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/StreamGate?is_mobile=false&from=fhd&is_rtl=false&dps_dvs=1524763255414~462&dps_pid=FL920039#page=740
Open sidebar, copy link location
Does this work to go directly to page 740 ?
Can someone go here to verify this?
No. Gives me an error message.
taf
The first link triggers a download of the book. Depending on the settings of your computer, it will either open the file in Acrobat Reader (or whatever other reader you may have specified) or it will save the file to the Downloads folder in your computer (again, depending on the settings you may have specified).

Either way, it's probably not a good idea to specify such a link in a post such as this, because it causes an action that the reader of the post may not want and is not told about. If a link is needed, the link should be instead to the catalog entry for the book, from which the reader can choose whether to download the book. I was working from a copy downloaded some time ago - there's sufficient information in my original post for the reader to find the catalog entry on his/her own.

PS: I too received an error message from the second link.

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