Discussion:
Ancestry table of Constance of Castile, wife of King Louis VII of France
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b***@gmail.com
2018-06-15 10:17:53 UTC
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June 15, 2018
As a (direct maternal line) desendent of Constance of Castile, I am grateful for any personal information on this person of interest as my search has resulted in little to none of her personal life. Surely a person who is so high in status has some points in their life worth recording other than birth and death, marriage and children. I recognize she is a woman who long ago history would religate to insignificant unless participating in male dominated pursuits, but surely something must be recorded somewhere. I shall keep searching.

Again, my thanks for any and all comments posted on this subject.

With sincerity,
S. Grant-Suttie, Canada
Dear Newsgroup ~
Since little attention has been paid to Constance of Castile's ancestry
until this point, I believe it would be helpful if we saw an ahnentafel of
Constance's ancestry. If someone has the time, I'd appreciate it if they
could post say the first five generations of her ancestry in ahnentafel
form. I'm sure she has some interesting ancestry. If Constance holds as
the mother of Alice of France, it will revise the charts of many people here
on the newsgroup who descend from Alice's great-granddaughter, Eleanor of
Castile, wife of King Edward I of England, myself included.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Peter Stewart
2018-06-16 01:02:15 UTC
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Post by b***@gmail.com
June 15, 2018
As a (direct maternal line) desendent of Constance of Castile, I am grateful for any personal information on this person of interest as my search has resulted in little to none of her personal life. Surely a person who is so high in status has some points in their life worth recording other than birth and death, marriage and children. I recognize she is a woman who long ago history would religate to insignificant unless participating in male dominated pursuits, but surely something must be recorded somewhere. I shall keep searching.
I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed - almost nothing is known about Constance beyond the bare facts of her existence, marriage and death in bearing a second daughter. Even her name was not remembered in Spain, as by the late 1230s Lucas of Tuy was mistakenly recalling her as Isabella. She does not occur in any royal documents and until her tomb was opened in 1793 it was not even known that she had possessed a seal.

Peter Stewart
MaraGM
2018-06-16 06:25:09 UTC
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Addition & corrections most welcome
Ancestors of Constance de Castile
1. Constance de Castile, died 04 October 1160. She was the daughter
of
2. Alphonso VIII King of Castile and 3. Eleanor of England.
Generation No. 2
2. Alphonso VIII King of Castile, born 11 November 1155 in Soria,
3. Eleanor of England, born 13 October 1162 in Falaise, Calvados,
FRA;
Dave,
I don't think its possible for Constance (d. 1160) to have been the daughter
of a couple born in 1155 & 1162. Constance must have been daughter of an
earlier King of Castile.
Cheers, -------Brad
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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Addition & corrections most welcome
Ancestors of Constance de Castile
1. Constance de Castile, died 04 October 1160. She was the daughter
of
2. Alphonso VIII King of Castile and 3. Eleanor of England.
Generation No. 2
2. Alphonso VIII King of Castile, born 11 November 1155 in Soria,
3. Eleanor of England, born 13 October 1162 in Falaise, Calvados,
FRA;
Dave,
I don't think its possible for Constance (d. 1160) to have been the daughter
of a couple born in 1155 & 1162. Constance must have been daughter of an
earlier King of Castile.
Cheers, -------Brad
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
You're right. She was not the daughter of Alfonso VIII; she was the daughter of Alfonso VII and Berenguela. There is a charter from the Cathedral of Salamanca from 18 November 1153 when Alfonso VII "the Emperor" made a donation to Count Ponce which is dated: "Facta carta in Sauria. Era ICLXLI et quot XIIII kalendarum decembris, quando imperator misit filiam suam Constantiam Lodoico regi Francie in coniugem".
There's a pretty good biography of King Alfonso II at

http://anuariobrigantino.betanzos.net/Ab2012PDF/099_160_%20GARCIA_OSUNA_ALFONSO_VII_DE_LEON_anuario_brigantino_2012.pdf|oclc= 402770925

Mention of this charter in page 152.
Regards,
Mara
taf
2018-06-16 18:35:47 UTC
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Post by MaraGM
There's a pretty good biography of King Alfonso II at
http://anuariobrigantino.betanzos.net/Ab2012PDF/099_160_%20GARCIA_OSUNA_ALFONSO_VII_DE_LEON_anuario_brigantino_2012.pdf|oclc= 402770925
This URL for a biography of Alfonso VII got garbled in posting. It should be:

http://anuariobrigantino.betanzos.net/Ab2012PDF/099_160_%20GARCIA_OSUNA_ALFONSO_VII_DE_LEON_anuario_brigantino_2012.pdf

For the Anglophones out there,

Reilly, Bernard F. (1998). The Kingdom of León-Castilla Under King Alfonso VII, 1126 – 1157. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press. ISBN 9780812234527.

which is not available on-line.

taf
MaraGM
2018-06-16 18:39:09 UTC
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Post by MaraGM
Addition & corrections most welcome
Ancestors of Constance de Castile
1. Constance de Castile, died 04 October 1160. She was the daughter
of
2. Alphonso VIII King of Castile and 3. Eleanor of England.
Generation No. 2
2. Alphonso VIII King of Castile, born 11 November 1155 in Soria,
3. Eleanor of England, born 13 October 1162 in Falaise, Calvados,
FRA;
Dave,
I don't think its possible for Constance (d. 1160) to have been the daughter
of a couple born in 1155 & 1162. Constance must have been daughter of an
earlier King of Castile.
Cheers, -------Brad
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Addition & corrections most welcome
Ancestors of Constance de Castile
1. Constance de Castile, died 04 October 1160. She was the daughter
of
2. Alphonso VIII King of Castile and 3. Eleanor of England.
Generation No. 2
2. Alphonso VIII King of Castile, born 11 November 1155 in Soria,
3. Eleanor of England, born 13 October 1162 in Falaise, Calvados,
FRA;
Dave,
I don't think its possible for Constance (d. 1160) to have been the daughter
of a couple born in 1155 & 1162. Constance must have been daughter of an
earlier King of Castile.
Cheers, -------Brad
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
You're right. She was not the daughter of Alfonso VIII; she was the daughter of Alfonso VII and Berenguela. There is a charter from the Cathedral of Salamanca from 18 November 1153 when Alfonso VII "the Emperor" made a donation to Count Ponce which is dated: "Facta carta in Sauria. Era ICLXLI et quot XIIII kalendarum decembris, quando imperator misit filiam suam Constantiam Lodoico regi Francie in coniugem".
There's a pretty good biography of King Alfonso II at
http://anuariobrigantino.betanzos.net/Ab2012PDF/099_160_%20GARCIA_OSUNA_ALFONSO_VII_DE_LEON_anuario_brigantino_2012.pdf|oclc= 402770925
Mention of this charter in page 152.
Regards,
Mara
Sorry I got the url wrong. It should be:

http://anuariobrigantino.betanzos.net/Ab2012PDF/099_160_%20GARCIA_OSUNA_ALFONSO_VII_DE_LEON_anuario_brigantino_2012.pdf

Mara
Hans Vogels
2018-06-16 20:54:38 UTC
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Hello Todd,

This string caught my eye as well as your answer in 2003. Is your alternative still viable, has it been discussed or published or dismissed since then?

In 2003 you had no time to discuss it in detail but I take it that since then you might have become a pensioner with a bit more spare time? ;-)

With regards,
Hans Vogels
Watching the posts, it occurred to me that I ought to build a database. So,
I went to an old box of hand written notes (unopened these past five or six
years) and began entering data (knowing that data means facts, I use the
term in the sense that is material entered into a database). For the wife
of William I, count of Burgundy (d. 12/11/1087), I entered Stephanie of
Longwy (ante 1035-ante 1092), daughter of Albert of Alsace. This puzzled me
years ago (source was ?). Then today, I saw that Todd Farmarie, whom I've
learned to trust on things Iberian and the Midi, listed an ahnentafel, which
surely would erase my question mark. Lo! A Blank! I check the archives. A
ton fell out! Dare I ask; or should I let well enough alone? I've had my
fill of rhubarb.
35 or so years ago, Szabolcs de Vajay wrote an article in which
he evaluated all of the claimed ancestries assigned to her, and
rejected them all. He then discussed all of the evidence and
concluded that she was daughter of Count Adelbert and his wife,
'Clemence of Foix'. His analysis was widely accepted, and you
will fince 'Clemence' all over the internet. However, in the
frequently cited Onomastique et Parente, (which just came off the
presses in 2000), he wrote an article formally retracting this
conclusion. The two critical pieces of evidence actually did not
apply to the individuals they were thought to apply to, and thus
the whole construct fell like a house of cards (this, among other
things, means that Clemence of Foix never existed, and also
affects the parentage of William VII of Aquitaine's wife). We
are left with no basis for drawing a conclusion as to her
parentage, other than that her son Raymond was apparently related
to Henry of Burgundy, Count of Portugal, and that both his name,
Raymond, and hers, Stephanie/Ettienette, points to a link to the
Midi - the region stretching along the Med from Nice to Barcelona.
I could speculate here - there is a marriage that would unite
several of the claims, and fit with the chronology, but I don't
have time to discuss it in detail, and don't want to replace one
house of cards with another.
taf
taf
2018-06-16 21:24:41 UTC
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Post by Hans Vogels
I could speculate here - there is a marriage that would unite
several of the claims, and fit with the chronology, but I don't
have time to discuss it in detail, and don't want to replace one
house of cards with another.
This string caught my eye as well as your answer in 2003. Is your
alternative still viable, has it been discussed or published or
dismissed since then?
In 2003 you had no time to discuss it in detail but I take it that
since then you might have become a pensioner with a bit more spare
time? ;-)
Alas, I cannot for the life of me remember what I had in mind 15 years ago when I wrote this. Presumably a confluence of names and relationships I came across in passing. It couldn't have been too compelling or I probably would have remembered it. You speculate I might now be a pensioner and have more time - not the case, but something that also becomes more likely with age may apply: senility.

taf
Hans Vogels
2018-06-18 07:17:51 UTC
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Thanks Todd.
:-)
Post by taf
Post by Hans Vogels
I could speculate here - there is a marriage that would unite
several of the claims, and fit with the chronology, but I don't
have time to discuss it in detail, and don't want to replace one
house of cards with another.
This string caught my eye as well as your answer in 2003. Is your
alternative still viable, has it been discussed or published or
dismissed since then?
In 2003 you had no time to discuss it in detail but I take it that
since then you might have become a pensioner with a bit more spare
time? ;-)
Alas, I cannot for the life of me remember what I had in mind 15 years ago when I wrote this. Presumably a confluence of names and relationships I came across in passing. It couldn't have been too compelling or I probably would have remembered it. You speculate I might now be a pensioner and have more time - not the case, but something that also becomes more likely with age may apply: senility.
taf
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