Saint Quintin pedigree

[Douglas Richardson]

Dear Newsgroup ~

The pedigree of the early Saint Quintin family is a bit of a mess. Way too many men named Herbert!

Recently I found the following Common Pleas lawsuit which concerns this family:

In 1305 Margery widow of Herbert de Saint Quintin sued Thomas de Burnham and Ellen his wife in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of six messuages and 15 bovates of land with appurtenances in Normanby by Glentham, Lincolnshire in right of dower. The said Thomas and Ellen called to warranty Nicholas son and heir of Hugh de Hastings.

Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/153, image 669f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no153/aCP40no153fronts/IMG_0669.htm).

Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem 4 (1913): 84-97 includes two inquisitions post mortem dated 15 and 28 Feb. 1303 for Herbert de Saint Quintin, of Stanton St. Quintin, Wiltshire and Frome St. Quintin, Dorset. Herbert presumably died shortly before 18 January 1303 (date of the writ for the inquisitions). The inquisitions indicates that Herbert's heir was his grandson, Herbert, aged 18, son of Herbert de Saint Quintin the younger.

For a transcript of the published inquisitions, see the following weblink:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol4/pp84-97

The inquisitions indicate that two successive Herbert de Saint Quintin's died in the period around 1303. The question is: Which of these two men married Margery de Saint Quintin involved in the 1305 lawsuit?

John Watson recently posted a weblink to a pedigree of the Saint Quintin family published by Roger Gale in the book, Registrum Honoris de Richmond (1722): Table 5. The pedigree can be found at Google page 75 at the following weblink:

https://books.google.com/books?id=YuZZAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

The pedigree may also be viewed at the following weblink:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433004950261;view=1up;seq=143

Gale's pedigree indicates that the wife of the elder Herbert de Saint Quintin was "Margaret fille a Walter Fauconberge de [left blank]." If this pedigree has any merit, it would appear that it was the elder Herbert's wife, Margery, who was involved in the 1305 Common Pleas lawsuit.

The Saint Quintin pedigree does not identify the wife of the younger Herbert de Saint Quintin, who predeceased his father.

Elsewhere, however, I note that Batten, Historical and Topographical Collections Relating to the Early History of Parts of South Somerset (1894): 130-132 discusses a certain Anastasia/Anesteise Mautravers, wife of Herbert de Saint Quintin, who was buried in the chapel of the Blessed Mary in Montacute, Somerset. From Batten's comments, it seems clear that Anastasia Mautravers died shortly before 1305. Indeed Batten identifies Anastasia as the wife of Herbert de Saint Quintin the younger, son of Herbert de Saint Quintin, by Margery, wife of Walter de Fauconbridge, which Herbert "died in his father's lifetime."

https://books.google.com/books?id=DiZTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA130

If we follow Gale and Batten, the Saint Quintin pedigree would look as follows:

1. Herbert de Saint Quintin, died 1303, married Margery de Fauconberge, living 1305.
2. Herbert de Saint Quintin, died before 1303, married Anastasia Mautravers, probably died before 1305.
3. Herbert de Saint Quintin, born 1285, living 1331, married by dispensation Lora (or Lorette) de Fauconberge.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

[John Watson]

Dear Douglas,

For a translation of the 1305 charter of Sir John de Mandeville which mentions "Anastasia, daughter of John de Mautravers, and formerly wife of Herbert de Sancto Quintino, whose body lies buried in the newly constructed chapel of the Blessed Mary of Montacute," see:
Two Cartularies of the Augustinian Priory of Bruton and the Cluniac Priory of Montacute in the County of Somerset, Somerset Record Society, 8 (1894), 139-140.
https://archive.org/stream/publicationssome08some#page/139/mode/1up

This charter is one of the key pieces of evidence (in my opinion) that Lora de Fauconberge, who married Herbert de St. Quntin (d. 1338-9) was of the family of Faucomberge of Milton, Somerset and not of Skelton, Yorkshire.

Sir John de Mandeville's daughter Maud married William de Faucomberge, brother of Lora de Fauconberge. This is the reason that the dispensation for the marriage of Herbert de St. Quintin and Lora de Fauconberge cannot be found. It does not exist because the Fauconberge family of Somerset was only distantly related (if at all) to the Fauconberges of Skelton.

For the relationship between John Mautravers and Anastasia, see:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lcui7g0xag4b8f1/Faucomberge.pdf?dl=0

Regards,

John

Post by Douglas Richardson
Dear Newsgroup ~
The pedigree of the early Saint Quintin family is a bit of a mess. Way too many men named Herbert!
In 1305 Margery widow of Herbert de Saint Quintin sued Thomas de Burnham and Ellen his wife in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of six messuages and 15 bovates of land with appurtenances in Normanby by Glentham, Lincolnshire in right of dower. The said Thomas and Ellen called to warranty Nicholas son and heir of Hugh de Hastings.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/153, image 669f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no153/aCP40no153fronts/IMG_0669.htm).
Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem 4 (1913): 84-97 includes two inquisitions post mortem dated 15 and 28 Feb. 1303 for Herbert de Saint Quintin, of Stanton St. Quintin, Wiltshire and Frome St. Quintin, Dorset. Herbert presumably died shortly before 18 January 1303 (date of the writ for the inquisitions). The inquisitions indicates that Herbert's heir was his grandson, Herbert, aged 18, son of Herbert de Saint Quintin the younger.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol4/pp84-97
The inquisitions indicate that two successive Herbert de Saint Quintin's died in the period around 1303. The question is: Which of these two men married Margery de Saint Quintin involved in the 1305 lawsuit?
https://books.google.com/books?id=YuZZAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433004950261;view=1up;seq=143
Gale's pedigree indicates that the wife of the elder Herbert de Saint Quintin was "Margaret fille a Walter Fauconberge de [left blank]." If this pedigree has any merit, it would appear that it was the elder Herbert's wife, Margery, who was involved in the 1305 Common Pleas lawsuit.
The Saint Quintin pedigree does not identify the wife of the younger Herbert de Saint Quintin, who predeceased his father.
Elsewhere, however, I note that Batten, Historical and Topographical Collections Relating to the Early History of Parts of South Somerset (1894): 130-132 discusses a certain Anastasia/Anesteise Mautravers, wife of Herbert de Saint Quintin, who was buried in the chapel of the Blessed Mary in Montacute, Somerset. From Batten's comments, it seems clear that Anastasia Mautravers died shortly before 1305. Indeed Batten identifies Anastasia as the wife of Herbert de Saint Quintin the younger, son of Herbert de Saint Quintin, by Margery, wife of Walter de Fauconbridge, which Herbert "died in his father's lifetime."
https://books.google.com/books?id=DiZTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA130
1. Herbert de Saint Quintin, died 1303, married Margery de Fauconberge, living 1305.
2. Herbert de Saint Quintin, died before 1303, married Anastasia Mautravers, probably died before 1305.
3. Herbert de Saint Quintin, born 1285, living 1331, married by dispensation Lora (or Lorette) de Fauconberge.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

[l***@gmail.com]

I am not sure if this is of interest to you but in Richard Symonds's Diary of the Marches of the Royal Army during the Great Civil War, p 112, there is reference to a ledger stone in the floor of the North aisle/Chapel of St George's Church, Hinton St George, Somerset, to Anesteise de St Quentin, daughter of Sir Johan Mutravers, wife of Herbert de Sent Quentin.

A sketch was made in 1644 and in the original version of the Diary which I believe is in the Bodleian Library, Oxford.

The stone is no longer in the chapel, unless it is buried beneath the existing floor, but there is a heavily eroded stone, outside by the vestry door, which could be it. Presumably Anastasia is buried at Hinton St George which is not so far from Montacute where her husband is apparently buried. I would very much like to know more about her and why she is in Hinton St George.