Discussion:
Anastacia de Neville Fauconberg's father?
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wjhonson
2017-07-28 20:31:28 UTC
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https://books.google.com/books?id=fQQVAAAAQAAJ&dq=fauconberg%20of%20skelton&pg=PA403#v=onepage&q=fauconberg%20of%20skelton&f=true

I only had one Ralph de Neville, so I attached her here, to that Ralph who died 18 Apr 1331

But she seems to be a generation at least earlier, if her son John de Fauconberg was already "aged 26" when his father died in 1314 "slain at the battle of bannockburn"

What do I have wrong here?
taf
2017-07-29 00:29:35 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
I only had one Ralph de Neville, so I attached her here, to that Ralph who died 18 Apr 1331
But she seems to be a generation at least earlier, if her son John de
Fauconberg was already "aged 26" when his father died in 1314 "slain at the
battle of bannockburn"
What do I have wrong here?
The chart is clearly problematic. The accompanying note says the father died 11 Ed. II, so that places his death in 1317/8, and John's birth in 1291, yet John's grandfather is said to have been 42 in 1304, so born 1262. That would be 2 generations in 19 years.

Looking for the ipm that is implicit in the age, we indeed find the most detailed account in a York inquest for Walter de Faucomberg on the Wed. after St. Hilary, 12 Edward II, stating that John was aged 26 on the feast of the nativity of St. John the Baptist last. However, in an earlier York inquest, it was found that the manor of Ryse had been held jointly by Walter and his wife Alice. Alice wouldn't be a second wife, if, as we are told, Anastatia remarried after Walter's death.

The earlier ipm is 33 E I. Walter died, and his son Walter was aged 40 and more. I think the heir is much more likely to be John's father than his grandfather.

taf
Randy Jones
2017-07-29 01:07:16 UTC
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Thanks
Post by wjhonson
I only had one Ralph de Neville, so I attached her here, to that Ralph who died 18 Apr 1331
But she seems to be a generation at least earlier, if her son John de
Fauconberg was already "aged 26" when his father died in 1314 "slain at the
battle of bannockburn"
What do I have wrong here?
The chart is clearly problematic.  The accompanying note says the father died 11 Ed. II, so that places his death in 1317/8, and John's birth in 1291, yet John's grandfather is said to have been 42 in 1304, so born 1262.  That would be 2 generations in 19 years.

Looking for the ipm that is implicit in the age, we indeed find the most detailed account in a York inquest for Walter de Faucomberg on the Wed. after St. Hilary, 12 Edward II, stating that John was aged 26 on the feast of the nativity of St. John the Baptist last.  However, in an earlier York inquest, it was found that the manor of Ryse had been held jointly by Walter and his wife Alice.  Alice wouldn't be a second wife, if, as we are told, Anastatia remarried after Walter's death.

The earlier ipm is 33 E I. Walter died, and his son Walter was aged 40 and more.  I think the heir is much more likely to be John's father than his grandfather.

taf

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taf
2017-07-29 01:26:27 UTC
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Post by taf
The chart is clearly problematic. The accompanying note says the father
died 11 Ed. II, so that places his death in 1317/8, and John's birth in
1291, yet John's grandfather is said to have been 42 in 1304, so born 1262.
That would be 2 generations in 19 years.
I can do math - this one was just a typo. 2 generations in 29 years.

taf
John Watson
2017-07-29 05:39:52 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
https://books.google.com/books?id=fQQVAAAAQAAJ&dq=fauconberg%20of%20skelton&pg=PA403#v=onepage&q=fauconberg%20of%20skelton&f=true
I only had one Ralph de Neville, so I attached her here, to that Ralph who died 18 Apr 1331
But she seems to be a generation at least earlier, if her son John de Fauconberg was already "aged 26" when his father died in 1314 "slain at the battle of bannockburn"
What do I have wrong here?
Dear Will,

Sir Walter Faucomberge, second son and heir apparent, was knighted by the Prince of Wales, 22 May 1306, at Westminster. He was summoned for Military Service, 24 June (1312) 5 Edw. II, and again (but after his death) 30 June (1314) 7 Edw. II, by writs directed Waltero do Faucumberge juniori or Facumberge le fiz.

He married Anastase, daughter of Sir Ralph de Neville, of Raby, co. Durham, by Eupheme, daughter and in her issue coheir of Sir John de Clavering, of Warkworth, Northumberland, and Clavering, Essex. He died s.p., being slain at the battle of Bannockburn, 24. June 1314. His widow was living in 1315.
Complete Peerage, vol. 5, 270-1.

Randolf or Ranulph (sometimes called, seemingly in error, Ralph, son and heir of Robert de Neville and Mary his wife, was born on 18 October 1262, and was heir to the Neville estates on the death of his grandfather, in 1282 (having livery under writ of 11 January 1284), and to his mother's inheritance, in April 1320. He was summoned, on 15 July 1287, with horses and arms to a military council at Gloucester (before Edmund, Earl of Cornwall, in the King's absence abroad), and to attend the King at Westminster, June 1294. He was summoned to Parliament from 24 June 1295 to 18 February 1330/1, by writs directed Ranulpho (and Radulpho) de Neville, whereby he is held to have become Lord Neville. For service in Scotland he was summoned 1291 and in later years; for service in Gascony, 1294, 1297 and 1324; and against the rebels under the Earl of Lancaster, 1322. His seal, as Dominus de Raby, was attached to the letter of the Barons to the Pope, February 1300/1. In 1303 he was chief of the delegates summoned by the King to set forth the grievances of the people against the Bishop of Durham. He, or possibly his son Ralph, was commissioner of array in Durham, 1322, in the North Riding of Yorks, 1324, and in Northumberland, 1324 and 1326; in 1325 Keeper of the Peace and one of the specially appointed keepers of the coast in Northumberland, and in 1326 one of the commissioners to impress shipping in the ports of that county.

He married, firstly, Eupheme, daughter of Robert Fitzroger, Lord FitzRoger , and, secondly, Margery, daughter of John de Thweng, by whom he had no issue. He died shortly after 18 April 1331.
Complete Peerage, vol. 9, 497-8.

5 September 1313, Commission to absolve lady Anastasia de Falconberg, consort of lord Walter de Falconberg junior, from a sentence of excommunication for adultery with John de Lilleford.
Thomas Duffus Hardy, ed., Registrum Palatinum Dunelmense. The Register of Richard de Kellawe, Lord Palatinate and Bishop of Durham, 1311-1316, vol. 1, Rolls Series (London, 1873), 432.

9 November 1313, citation of Sir Ralph de Neville, knight for incest and adultery with lady Anastasia his daughter and wife of Walter de Fauconberg.
Thomas Duffus Hardy, ed., Registrum Palatinum Dunelmense. The Register of Richard de Kellawe, Lord Palatinate and Bishop of Durham, 1311-1316, vol. 1, Rolls Series (London, 1873), 461.

Sir Ralph de Bulmer son and heir of John de Bulmer, of Wilton in Cleveland and Bulmer, co. York, by Tiphaine, second daughter and coheir of Hugh de Morwick, of Morwick, Northumberland. He succeeded his father 17 Feb. 1299, and his mother shortly before 28 Aug. 1315 when he was aged 30. Having done homage, he had livery of his inheritance, 10 Dec. 1315. He was summoned cum equis et armis from 14 Jan. (1299/1300) 28 Edw. I to 27 Mar. (1335) 9 Edw. III, to two Councils 15 Feb. (1311/2) 5 Edw. II and 25 Feb. (1341/2) 16 Edw. III, and to Parliament, from 20 Apr. (1344) 18 Edw. III to 20 Nov. (1348) 22 Edw. III, by writs directed Radulfo de Bulmer or Bulmere, whereby he is held to have become Lord Bulmer, but none of his descendants were ever summoned to Parliament, in respect of this Barony. Sheriff of co. York 1330-32.

He married without licence, before 11 Feb. 1319, Alice, widow of Walter de Fauconberge, of Skelton in Cleveland (who died shortly before 2 Jan. 1319), daughter of John de Killingholm, of Boythorpe, co. York. He died before her. She died on 22 June 1356.
Complete Peerage, vol. 2, 414-5.

Get a copy of CP instead of relying on Google Books.

Regards,

John
wjhonson
2017-07-29 14:33:57 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
https://books.google.com/books?id=fQQVAAAAQAAJ&dq=fauconberg%20of%20skelton&pg=PA403#v=onepage&q=fauconberg%20of%20skelton&f=true
I only had one Ralph de Neville, so I attached her here, to that Ralph who died 18 Apr 1331
But she seems to be a generation at least earlier, if her son John de Fauconberg was already "aged 26" when his father died in 1314 "slain at the battle of bannockburn"
What do I have wrong here?
So apparently this John of Skelton was the third son of Walter (d 1318) by his wife Isabel de Ros ? And then Thomas of Withernwick would be the fourth son ?

At least that chronology fits

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