Discussion:
RD 900 note: Henry Gregory
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g***@gmail.com
2018-05-14 21:41:26 UTC
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Greetings,

Not long ago there was a discussion here regarding Henry Gregory. RD900 2:815-6 shows a descent from Henry I including generation 8 as "(alleged daughter or granddaughter of Gruffudd ap Madog. . . ) Margred ferch Gruffudd=Sir John Arderne."

Among other notes in his references: "Documentation for generations 7-8, 10-11 and 13-14 is eagerly sought." That doesn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of the line.

Greg
a***@gmail.com
2018-05-15 06:13:11 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Greetings,
Not long ago there was a discussion here regarding Henry Gregory. RD900 2:815-6 shows a descent from Henry I including generation 8 as "(alleged daughter or granddaughter of Gruffudd ap Madog. . . ) Margred ferch Gruffudd=Sir John Arderne."
Among other notes in his references: "Documentation for generations 7-8, 10-11 and 13-14 is eagerly sought." That doesn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of the line.
Greg
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/soc.culture.australian/FMDcg4tOzmU
Paulo Ricardo Canedo
2018-05-16 12:35:45 UTC
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Dear Greg, could you give us the full descent, please?
wjhonson
2018-05-16 15:32:06 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Greetings,
Not long ago there was a discussion here regarding Henry Gregory. RD900 2:815-6 shows a descent from Henry I including generation 8 as "(alleged daughter or granddaughter of Gruffudd ap Madog. . . ) Margred ferch Gruffudd=Sir John Arderne."
Among other notes in his references: "Documentation for generations 7-8, 10-11 and 13-14 is eagerly sought." That doesn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of the line.
Greg
http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00384732&tree=LEO
s***@mindspring.com
2018-05-17 17:05:13 UTC
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Greetings,
Not long ago there was a discussion here regarding Henry Gregory. RD900 2:815-6 shows a descent from Henry I including generation 8 as "(alleged daughter or granddaughter of Gruffudd ap Madog. . . ) Margred ferch Gruffudd=Sir John Arderne."
Among other notes in his references: "Documentation for generations 7-8, 10-11 and 13-14 is eagerly sought." That doesn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of the line.
Greg
I examined part of this line around 15 to 20 years ago when I was investigating the alleged descent of the Bostocks from Henry I, allegedly passing through a daughter of John Arderne and Margred ferch Gruffudd through the Wettenhalls to the Bostocks. If my memory is correct, I was satisfied that the documentation of the line was OK through Margred and her husband John Arderne, but that there was no good proof of the alleged Arderne-Wettenhall marriage. This problem would not affect a line passing through any well documented son of John and Margred. The indication "alleged daughter or granddaughter of Gruffudd ap Madog" is a bit puzzling, as the accounts I have seen make Margred a daughter of Gruffudd. My recollection is that starting with Ormerod and diligently following the chain of citations eventually led to the proof for this particular link.

Stewart Baldwin
s***@mindspring.com
2018-05-18 16:37:17 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Greetings,
Not long ago there was a discussion here regarding Henry Gregory. RD900 2:815-6 shows a descent from Henry I including generation 8 as "(alleged daughter or granddaughter of Gruffudd ap Madog. . . ) Margred ferch Gruffudd=Sir John Arderne."
Among other notes in his references: "Documentation for generations 7-8, 10-11 and 13-14 is eagerly sought." That doesn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of the line.
Greg
I examined part of this line around 15 to 20 years ago when I was investigating the alleged descent of the Bostocks from Henry I, allegedly passing through a daughter of John Arderne and Margred ferch Gruffudd through the Wettenhalls to the Bostocks. If my memory is correct, I was satisfied that the documentation of the line was OK through Margred and her husband John Arderne, but that there was no good proof of the alleged Arderne-Wettenhall marriage. This problem would not affect a line passing through any well documented son of John and Margred. The indication "alleged daughter or granddaughter of Gruffudd ap Madog" is a bit puzzling, as the accounts I have seen make Margred a daughter of Gruffudd. My recollection is that starting with Ormerod and diligently following the chain of citations eventually led to the proof for this particular link.
Having checked my files, I can say a bit more on this. For more details on the Arderne family, see Ormerod's Miscellanea Palatina, which can be downloaded from archive.org at the following URL:

https://archive.org/details/miscellaneapalat00orme

The account of the Ardernes starts on page 72. The evidence that John Arderne married Margred (Margaret), daighter of Griffudd ap Madog (a.k.a. Griffin, lord of Bromfeld) appears on page 16 in Ormerod's Memoir on the Cheshire Domesday Roll, which forms part 3 of the same work (with a separate pagination from the first two parts), giving the following record from the time of the justiciar Thomas de Bolton (1267-70):

[#]46. Enrollment of grant by Peter de Arderne, Lord of Aldford, to John his eldest son, and Margaret his wife, daughter of the Lord Griffin of Bromfeld, of the entire manor of Congleton.

My recollection is that documentation for the remaining generations back to Henry I was relatively easy to find, mostly from sources given in The Complete Peerage. I have never researched the generations of the Arderne family later than this John Arderne, so I cannot comment on the validity of the later generations, but the above work (plus accounts of the Ardernes in Ormerod's History of Cheshire) should give a good start.

Stewart Baldwin
g***@gmail.com
2018-05-20 17:23:31 UTC
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Greetings,
Not long ago there was a discussion here regarding Henry Gregory. RD900 2:815-6 shows a descent from Henry I including generation 8 as "(alleged daughter or granddaughter of Gruffudd ap Madog. . . ) Margred ferch Gruffudd=Sir John Arderne."
Among other notes in his references: "Documentation for generations 7-8, 10-11 and 13-14 is eagerly sought." That doesn't seem to be a ringing endorsement of the line.
Greg
Thanks, Stewart.

For those without RD900, you can see the complete line here: http://gdcooke.org/ss/default.aspx/page/org2-o/uiroy_gregory.htm

Obviously, many details and notes are still to be added on many of the individuals in the line. It's a work in progress.

Greg

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