Discussion:
J.R.R. Tolkien
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lmahler@att.net
2018-03-03 08:08:37 UTC
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There have been several postings to this
newsgroup about distant family connections between
American celebrities.

Here's an example of a kinship between two famous
persons from England, which might not be widely known.



Samuel Bonham
married to Alice Heartwell
at Wardington, Oxfordshire in 1771.
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Hannah Bonham, bp. 1783 at
Wardington, Oxfordshire,
married John Stockley in 1807,
in the adjacent parish of Banbury.
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Mary Ann Elizabeth Stockley,
baptized in 1830, at the age of 14,
at St. Mary Magdalen in the City of
Oxford.
She was married to James Sparrow
in 1834 at St. Thomas in the City of
Oxford.
The census returns list her birthplace
as Oxford or Banbury.
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Emily Jane Sparrow,
1837-1914, born at Oxford,
married to John Suffield, 1833-1890
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Mabel Suffield,
1870-1904, born at Yardley, Worcestershire
married to Arthur Reuel Tolkien
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John Ronald Reuel Tolkien,
1892-1973
Author of Lord of the Rings,
and many other works.


The details for this pedigree were taken from
the Oxfordshire parish register collection on
Ancestry.com.
The last couple of generations are based on
user submitted trees, given by family members.



The first named couple,
Samuel Bonham & Alice Heartwell
had a son John Bonham, 1787-1871,
baptized at Wardington, married to Ann Saul.
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William Bonham, 1819-1912,
baptized at Deddington, Oxfordshire,
married to Rebecca -
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Thomas Bonham, 1851-1929,
born Deddington, Oxfordshire,
married to Elizabeth Seeney
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Albert William Bonham,
1888-1944, born Banbury, Oxfordshire,
married to Ada Wilks
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John Henry Bonham,
1918-1989, born Bromsgrove, Worcestershire,
married to Joan Sargent
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John Henry Bonham,
1948-1980, born Redditch, Worcestershire,
Drummer for the band Led Zeppelin.



The movements of the Bonham family are traceable
through census records, available on Ancestry.com.


Leslie
Andrew Lancaster
2018-03-04 20:03:11 UTC
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Funnily enough Led Zeppelin have references to Tolkien stories in at least one song. Interesting!
lmahler@att.net
2018-03-06 09:10:17 UTC
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Post by Andrew Lancaster
Funnily enough Led Zeppelin have references to Tolkien stories in at least one song. Interesting!
----- I was hoping that someone would notice the Tolkien
/ Led Zeppelin influence !

I'm continuing to search on Tolkien's ancestry.
Maybe more interesting connections will turn up.


Leslie
Andrew Lancaster
2018-03-08 20:18:05 UTC
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Post by ***@att.net
Post by Andrew Lancaster
Funnily enough Led Zeppelin have references to Tolkien stories in at least one song. Interesting!
----- I was hoping that someone would notice the Tolkien
/ Led Zeppelin influence !
I'm continuing to search on Tolkien's ancestry.
Maybe more interesting connections will turn up.
Leslie
Was the surname really German, as the biographies have it?
lmahler@att.net
2018-03-09 03:21:09 UTC
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Post by Andrew Lancaster
Post by ***@att.net
Post by Andrew Lancaster
Funnily enough Led Zeppelin have references to Tolkien stories in at least one song. Interesting!
----- I was hoping that someone would notice the Tolkien
/ Led Zeppelin influence !
I'm continuing to search on Tolkien's ancestry.
Maybe more interesting connections will turn up.
Leslie
Was the surname really German, as the biographies have it?
The surname appears to be German.

The line goes back to George Tolkien,
1784-1840, a resident of Clerkenwell, Middlesex.

He was reportedly the son of John Benjamin Tolkien.
But there seems to be no record connecting them
to Germany.


Leslie
Vance Mead
2018-03-09 04:39:01 UTC
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There were people named Tolkin or Tokyn in England in the 16th century, particularly in Kent and Surrey.
Post by ***@att.net
The surname appears to be German.
The line goes back to George Tolkien,
1784-1840, a resident of Clerkenwell, Middlesex.
He was reportedly the son of John Benjamin Tolkien.
But there seems to be no record connecting them
to Germany.
Leslie
lmahler@att.net
2018-06-29 05:51:20 UTC
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Post by Andrew Lancaster
Post by ***@att.net
Post by Andrew Lancaster
Funnily enough Led Zeppelin have references to Tolkien stories in at least one song. Interesting!
----- I was hoping that someone would notice the Tolkien
/ Led Zeppelin influence !
I'm continuing to search on Tolkien's ancestry.
Maybe more interesting connections will turn up.
Leslie
Was the surname really German, as the biographies have it?
There is a citizenship petition for one of the family members,
displayed halfway down the following page.

It states that John Benjamin Tolkien was from Gdansk.

http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/search/label/Tolkien%20Ancestry


Leslie
taf
2018-06-29 14:34:55 UTC
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Post by ***@att.net
Post by Andrew Lancaster
Was the surname really German, as the biographies have it?
There is a citizenship petition for one of the family members,
displayed halfway down the following page.
It states that John Benjamin Tolkien was from Gdansk.
http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/search/label/Tolkien%20Ancestry
And elsewhere on the same and linked pages the family is shown to have come to Gdansk from Kreuzburg, Brandenburg, East Prussia (now Slavskoye, Russia), where they are found by 1614.

taf
Richard Smith
2018-06-29 15:48:53 UTC
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Post by taf
And elsewhere on the same and linked pages the family is shown to
have come to Gdansk from Kreuzburg, Brandenburg, East Prussia (now
Slavskoye, Russia), where they are found by 1614.
At the risk of being pedantic, the Kreuzburg that was in the Prussian
province of Brandenburg is currently in Germany and still known by that
name. It is the Kreuzburg that was in the Prussian province of East
Prussia that is now in the Kaliningrad Oblast of Russia and named
Slavskoye.
taf
2018-06-29 16:33:37 UTC
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Post by Richard Smith
At the risk of being pedantic, the Kreuzburg that was in the Prussian
province of Brandenburg is currently in Germany and still known by that
name. It is the Kreuzburg that was in the Prussian province of East
Prussia that is now in the Kaliningrad Oblast of Russia and named
Slavskoye.
That is what I get for pulling the information off of the pages (which at different places makes both identifications) without looking closely. It is the one that is now Slavstoye that is the Kreuzburg in question.

taf

j***@albion.edu
2018-03-09 01:16:19 UTC
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Sorry for OT, but I have a question (interested because of my own extensive ancestry in Deddington, Oxon).

Are you sure of William Bonham’s dates (1819-1912) in the Led Zeppelin line? There is a record of a William Bonham, age 54 years, buried in Deddington 15 Aug 1872. It seems to me that this is a more likely candidate for the son of John Bonham of Wardington, rather than the William Bonham who died April 1912 in Southam, Warwickshire. Do you have any proven connections between the Deddington William and the Warwickshire William, aside from the latter being from Oxfordshire? (This might not disprove the line, but it shows some need for scrutiny.)

And just FYI, the “Rebecca - ” married to the Deddington William Bonham appears to be Rebecca (or Rebeckah or Rebekah) Townsend, banns published in Deddington 27 Sep / 4 Oct / 11 Oct 1846.

Jim+
j***@albion.edu
2018-03-09 02:16:22 UTC
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Sorry this time for the double post, but I think I’ve discovered the problem. I think it argues against this Tolkien-Zeppelin connection (though there may be another one earlier in the Bonham family).

The William Bonham who married Rebecca Townsend (1846), parents of Thomas Bonham (b.1851) and reputed ancestor of John Henry Bonham of L.Z., is getting confused with another William Bonham, who married Mary Peckover on 27 Sep 1849 in Wardington. I am still not sure which one died in 1872 and which in 1912, but their origins are now the concerning part.

Rebecca’s William, according to census records, was born in Deddington around 1819. The 1861 census gives this William’s mother as Ann, age 70, born in Deddington. The marriage record gives his father as John Bonham, labourer. In the 1841 census, agricultural laborer John (age 70) and wife Ann (age 50) Bonham are in Deddington.

Mary’s William was born in Wardington around 1819. The marriage record for this William gives his father as John Bonham, carpenter. In the 1841 census, this John (occupation undecipherable), age 50, and wife Ann, age 45, are living in Cropredy with their son William (age 20, carpenter).

It seems to me that the latter William (husband of Mary Peckover) is a better candidate for the son of John Bonham and Ann Saul, since he is from Wardington, and since the father’s age matches much better. (You gave Ann Saul’s husband John the birth year of 1787, whereas the Deddington John was approximately 70 in 1841).

Since I’ve already overstayed my OT welcome, I can discuss further off-list:
***@gmail.com
Jim+
lmahler@att.net
2018-03-09 06:49:10 UTC
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Post by j***@albion.edu
Sorry this time for the double post, but I think I’ve discovered the problem. I think it argues against this Tolkien-Zeppelin connection (though there may be another one earlier in the Bonham family).
The William Bonham who married Rebecca Townsend (1846), parents of Thomas Bonham (b.1851) and reputed ancestor of John Henry Bonham of L.Z., is getting confused with another William Bonham, who married Mary Peckover on 27 Sep 1849 in Wardington. I am still not sure which one died in 1872 and which in 1912, but their origins are now the concerning part.
Rebecca’s William, according to census records, was born in Deddington around 1819. The 1861 census gives this William’s mother as Ann, age 70, born in Deddington. The marriage record gives his father as John Bonham, labourer. In the 1841 census, agricultural laborer John (age 70) and wife Ann (age 50) Bonham are in Deddington.
Mary’s William was born in Wardington around 1819. The marriage record for this William gives his father as John Bonham, carpenter. In the 1841 census, this John (occupation undecipherable), age 50, and wife Ann, age 45, are living in Cropredy with their son William (age 20, carpenter).
It seems to me that the latter William (husband of Mary Peckover) is a better candidate for the son of John Bonham and Ann Saul, since he is from Wardington, and since the father’s age matches much better. (You gave Ann Saul’s husband John the birth year of 1787, whereas the Deddington John was approximately 70 in 1841).
Jim+
Many thanks, it's good to have these corrections.
Here is a posting from over 10 years ago, regarding
the Bonham family of Deddington:

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/bonham/1429/

They seem to have the correct details.

The erroneous information that I had on the earlier
generations was taken from an online tree on Ancestry.com,
called John Henry Bonham 1948.

The tree includes numerous attached sources.
It's hard to believe, but somehow they couldn't get
it right on the earlier generations of their family.


I myself have a line of descent from a family that lived
at Deddington: Thomas Appletree and Jane Warner, married
by about 1580.


Leslie
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