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Revised List of Bastard Children of King Edward IV
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k***@gmail.com
2018-02-05 15:22:12 UTC
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With the exception of Grace, none of these people were recognized by Edward IV. Arthur Wayte was " recognized" by Henry VIII. Means nothing to me. The son Edward recognized is referred to as the Lord Bastard. He may have gone on to become Perkin Warbeck. He was not Arthur Wayte. I'm deeply suspicious of Tudor political manipulation.
m***@gmail.com
2018-05-20 02:02:06 UTC
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Dear Newsgroup ~
A few days ago, I posted a list of the known illegitimate children of
Edward IV, King of England (died 1483). Since posting, I've been
contacted by two newsgroup members each of whom has added a new
potential illegitimate child of King Edward IV. On my own, I've found
additional sources for two of the previously identified illegitimate
children. I've also found a reference to yet another alleged
illegitimate daughter in a late visitation who reputedly married into
the Musgrave family. I haven't included that child in the list below,
as I haven't yet confirmed that such a child and marriage occurred.
If anyone has anything to add to the information below or possesses
any information on a possible illegitimate daughter who married a
Musgrave, please post that information here on the newsgroup or
contact me at my e-mail address below.
Many thanks to Peter Sutton and James Trabue for sharing their
information with me.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
List of Illegitimate Children of King Edward IV
Illegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by an unknown mistress,
i. ELIZABETH PLANTAGENET, married before 1477 THOMAS LUMLEY, Knt., son
and heir apparent of George Lumley, Knt., Lord Lumley, by Elizabeth,
daughter and heiress of Roger Thornton, Esq. They had four sons,
Richard [Lord Lumley], John, George, and Roger, Esq., and three
daughters, Anne (wife of Robert Ogle, 4th Lord Ogle), Sibyl (wife of
William Hilton, Knt., de jure 9th Lord Hylton), and Elizabeth (wife of
Robert Cresswell, Esq.). SIR THOMAS LUMLEY was living 27 Oct. 1495,
and died prior to 1507. Descendants (not traced). [Note: Additional
evidence of Elizabeth's parentage may be seen in the papal
dispensation granted in 1489 for Elizabeth's son, Richard Lumley, to
marry Anne Conyers, they being related in the [3rd and] 4th degree of
kindred. A dispensation was needed for this marriage, as the two
parties were both descended from Ralph Neville, K.G., 1st Earl of
Westmorland, and his wife, Joan Beaufort (see Testamenta Eboracensia 3
(Surtees Soc., vol. 45) (1865): 355)]. Collins-Brydges, Peerage of
England 3 (1812): 703 (citing MS. E. 6, f. 5, b. in Offic. Arm.). R.
Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of the County Palatine of Durham 2 (1820): 139
(Lumley monument in Chester-le-Street, co. Durham church: " ... inde
pater efficitur illius Thomae qui ex magni Regis Edovardi quarti filia
naturali, Richardum susceperat ..."), 140 (monumental inscription at
Chester-le-Street: "Sir Thomas Lumley, Knight, sonne of George Lord
Lumley, maried Elizabeth, daughter naturel to Kinge Edwarde the
fourth, and he died in the life of his father, and had issue Richard
Lord Lumley") (Elizabeth's arms: 1. France and England; 2. a plain
cross of Ulster; 3. as 2; 4. barry of six, on a chief three pallets,
between two esquires' bastions, dexter and sinister, an inescutcheon
Argent, Mortimer, over all a bar sinister), 162-164 (Lumley chart).
"Thomas Lumley, son and heyre to George, maried Elisabeth, bastard
doughter to Kyng Edward the iiijth"). R. Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of
189-190 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas Lord Lomley
son & heyr to George = Elsabeth bastard doughter to Kyng Edward the
Fourth"). J. Foster, Pedigrees Recorded at the Visitations of the
County Palatine of Durham (1887), pg. 216 (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas
Lumley, son and heire = Elizabeth, bastard dau. of Edward IV"). C.P.
33-34. TAG 50 (1974): 81-86. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle Letters (1981)
[citing Harleian MS. 4033, f. 21 (23) v; Leland's Itinerary VI, f.
63]. Chris Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval
England (1984), pp. 160-161,179.
Illegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by a mistress, Elizabeth
i. ARTHUR PLANTAGENET (otherwise ARTHUR WAYTE), K.G., King’s
Spear, Esquire of the Body, Sheriff of Hampshire, Vice-Admiral of
England, Trier of Petitions in Parliament, Governor of Calais, Warden
of the Cinque Ports, Privy Councillor, born say 1475 (presumed to be
“my Lord the Bastard” mentioned in an Exchequer account
dated 1477, first occurs as an adult in 1501). He married (1st) 12
Nov. 1511 ELIZABETH GREY, suo jure Baroness Lisle, widow of Edmund
Dudley, Esq. (beheaded 18 Aug. 1510), and daughter and heiress of
Edward Grey, Knt., Viscount Lisle, by his 1st wife, Elizabeth,
daughter of John Talbot, Knt., Viscount Lisle. They had three
daughters, Frances (wife of John Basset and Thomas Monke), Elizabeth
(wife of Francis Jobson, Knt), and Bridget (wife of William Carden,
Knt.). In 1514 he was captain of the Vice-Admiral's ship "Trinity
Sovereign." He attended the King at the Field of Cloth of Gold in
1520. In consequence of his marriage, he was created 25 Apr. 1523
Viscount Lisle. In 1528 he purchased the manors of Segenworth, Chark,
Lee, Sutton, West Stratton, etc., Hampshire from his cousin, John
Wayte, Esq., of Titchfield. Arthur married (2nd) in 1529 Honor
Grenville, widow of John Basset, Knt. (died 31 Jan. 1522/9), and
daughter of Thomas Grenville, Knt., by his 1st wife, Isabel, daughter
of Otes Gilbert, Knt. They had no issue. He was imprisoned in the
Tower of London on suspicion of treason 19 May 1540. SIR ARTHUR
PLANTAGENET, Viscount Lisle, died there 3 Mar. 1541/2. His widow,
Honor, was buried at Logan, Cornwall 30 Apr. 1566. Modern descendants
(not traced). J. Burke, General & Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerages
... Extinct, Dormant, and in Abeyance (1831), pp. 433,513-514. G.F.
Beltz, Memorials of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (1841), pg.
"Elizab. [Gray] Nupta Edm. Dudley postea Arthur Plantagenet"); 16
(1881): 308-310 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Talbot pedigree: "Elsabeth
[Talbot] doughter & sole heyre [1] = Edmond Dudley on of the Prevy
Consell to Kyng Henry 7th., [2]= Arthur Plantagenet bastard son to
Edward IV. 2 husband"). J.L. Vivian, Visitations of the County of
Devon (1895), pp. 46-47,569. D.N.B. 15 (1909): 1285-1287 (biog. of
288,358,465,472.473; 6 (1922): 109,134. C.L. Scofield, Life and Reign
of Edward the Fourth 2 (1923): 56,161. C.P. 8 (1932): 63-68 (sub
Lisle). Cal. of Ancient Deeds - Series B Pt. 3 (List & Index Soc.,
vol. 113) (1975): B.10780, B.12180. Ancient Deeds Series BB (List &
Index Soc., vol. 137) (1977), pp. 80-81,83,90. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle
Letters 2 (1981): 63 (Arthur Plantagenet styled "cousin" by Margaret
Pole, Countess of Salisbury); 1 (1981): 481, 4{1981): 140 (instances
of Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, styled "cousin" to Arthur Plantagenet).
Exchequer Ancient Deeds - DD Series (List & Index Soc., vol. 200)
(1983), pp. 193,207. C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of
Medieval England (1984), pp. 158,161-174.
Alleged illegitimate children of Edward IV of England, by an unknown
i. GRACE PLANTAGENET, said to be present in 1492 on the funeral barge
of Queen Elizabeth Wydeville, widow of King Edward IV. C. Ross,
Edward IV (1974), pg. 316, foonote 2 (citing BM Arundel MS. 26, ff.
29v-30v). C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval
England (1984), pp. 158,161-174.
ii. _____ PLANTAGENET (daughter), married (as his 1st wife) JOHN
AUDLEY (or TUCHET), younger son of John Audley (or Tuchet), Knt., 6th
Lord Audley, Lord Treasurer of England, by Anne, daughter of Thomas
Echingham, Knt. They had no issue. Collections for a History of
Staffordshire n.s. 12 (1909): 229. MS. pedigree of Audley family
dated 1618 on file at the William SaltCollection at the William Salt
Library in Stafford, England. (These citations kindly provided by
Peter Sutton).
iii. MARY PLANTAGENET, married after 1485 (as his 2nd wife) HENRY
HARMAN, of Ellam (in Crayford), Kent, Clerk of the Crown to King Henry
VII, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Harman. HENRY HARMAN left a will
dated 1501, proved 1502 (P.C.C., 15 Blamyr), naming his deceased wife,
Agnes, his living wife, Mary, and eleven children, George, William,
Thomas, Roger, John, Henry, Robert, Elizabeth (wife of _____ Sparke),
Alice, Beatrice, and Anne. The maternity of the children is
uncertain, but at least the two youngest sons were by Henry Harman's
last wife, Mary, as indicated by Henry's will. Misc. Gen. et Her. 4th
ser. 2 (1908): 227-228 (Harman pedigree) (no identification of wives).
H.S.P. 74 (1923): 61-62 (1574 Vis. Kent) (Harman pedigree: "Henry
Harman Clarke of ye Crowne vnto H: 7 ... This man [Henry Harman] was
H: 7 man to whome he gaue the clarkeship of the Crowne and with all
gaue him the Crest belowe*, depick[t]ed one his armes which Crist was
giuen him after hee had maried with E: 4 daughter") (The latter
citation kindly supplied by James Trabue).
I am descended from Elizabeth Plantagenet and Thomas Lumley, Their daughter Sybil married my 12th great grandfather Sir William Hilton.
Paulo Ricardo Canedo
2018-05-24 10:27:23 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
With the exception of Grace, none of these people were recognized by Edward IV. Arthur Wayte was " recognized" by Henry VIII. Means nothing to me. The son Edward recognized is referred to as the Lord Bastard. He may have gone on to become Perkin Warbeck. He was not Arthur Wayte. I'm deeply suspicious of Tudor political manipulation.
Your idea doesn't make sense.

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