Discussion:
Family of Sir John Hawkwood
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m***@googlemail.com
2017-05-19 06:04:57 UTC
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I have just read the 2006 postings on Sir John Hawkwood which are interesting to me because they mention castle Hedingham and the De Veres, I trace my name back to the marriage of John Alliston and Rachel Fyrmyn in Sudbury 1606 and I think John was the son of John Alliston And Mary Payne from Castle Hedingham who married in Castle Hedingham 1577 ( the 1578 births page in ST Nicholas church have been destroyed so I cannot confirm ). When I did a DNA match both the De Vere and Liston names came up which following on from the earlier post does suggest that they Hawkwood, De Vere , Liston and now Alliston all had family connections. My Liston match had a time to common ancestor of between 600 and 900 years and he was from Edinburgh Scotland. The family is mentioned in the book https://archive.org/details/memoirsofmyances00mcca which says they came up down from Essex at the time of William I. Liston is a village near Sudbury and the Liston family held the manor there until the mid 1300's, They held it from De Vere.
m***@googlemail.com
2017-05-19 11:41:52 UTC
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I have just read the 2006 postings on Sir John Hawkwood which are interesting to me because they mention castle Hedingham and the De Veres. John De Liston was supposed to have trained John Hawkwood and it is believed they were probably family. I trace my name back to the marriage of John Alliston and Rachel Fyrmyn in Sudbury 1606 and I think John was the son of John Alliston And Mary Payne from Castle Hedingham who married in Castle Hedingham 1577 ( the 1578 births page in ST Nicholas church have been destroyed so I cannot confirm ). When I did a DNA match both the De Vere and Liston names came up which following on from the earlier post does suggest that they Hawkwood, De Vere , Liston and now Alliston all had family connections. My Liston match had a time to common ancestor of between 600 and 900 years and he was from Edinburgh Scotland. The family is mentioned in the book https://archive.org/details/memoirsofmyances00mcca which says they came up down from Essex at the time of William I. Liston is a village near Sudbury and the Liston family held the manor there until the mid 1300's, They held it from De Vere.
wjhonson
2017-05-22 16:52:57 UTC
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Are you referring to a Y-DNA test?
Or an Autosomal DNA test?
m***@googlemail.com
2017-05-23 10:48:25 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Are you referring to a Y-DNA test?
Or an Autosomal DNA test?
Y DNA, autosomal would be too long ago.
wjhonson
2017-05-23 16:17:37 UTC
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Well then you do understand that all the Y is telling you, is that somewhere in your line, a biological father had a different surname, then you expect him to have.

It doesn't tell you anything about how long ago that occurred.
m***@googlemail.com
2017-05-23 17:03:17 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Well then you do understand that all the Y is telling you, is that somewhere in your line, a biological father had a different surname, then you expect him to have.
It doesn't tell you anything about how long ago that occurred.
Except the surnames have the same origin, Liston and Alliston ( Al Liston) are derived from the manor of Liston in Essex. Other surname variations include Alston, Elliston, Allaston and Austyn. Names gradually change over the years like Chinese whispers.
Dee Horn
2017-05-25 18:23:40 UTC
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i have him on my family tree and at the moment am doing corrections on it.  I have done lots of searching and keep getting different info on how many children and who had them so i am going back thru.  also correcting Tyrells and Chilies.  the book i got from my cousin has lots of errors in it.

From: "***@googlemail.com" <***@googlemail.com>
To: gen-***@rootsweb.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: Family of Sir John Hawkwood
Post by wjhonson
Well then you do understand that all the Y is telling you, is that somewhere in your line, a biological father had a different surname, then you expect him to have.
It doesn't tell you anything about how long ago that occurred.
Except the surnames have the same origin, Liston and Alliston ( Al Liston) are derived from the manor of Liston in Essex. Other surname variations include Alston, Elliston, Allaston and Austyn.  Names gradually change over the years like Chinese whispers.

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Mark
2017-05-27 22:26:51 UTC
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Post by Dee Horn
i have him on my family tree and at the moment am doing corrections on it.  I have done lots of searching and keep getting different info on how many children and who had them so i am going back thru.  also correcting Tyrells and Chilies.  the book i got from my cousin has lots of errors in it.
Post by wjhonson
Well then you do understand that all the Y is telling you, is that somewhere in your line, a biological father had a different surname, then you expect him to have.
It doesn't tell you anything about how long ago that occurred.
Except the surnames have the same origin, Liston and Alliston ( Al Liston) are derived from the manor of Liston in Essex. Other surname variations include Alston, Elliston, Allaston and Austyn.  Names gradually change over the years like Chinese whispers.
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Sorry I did not mean to give the impression that De Vere and Hawkwood have the same paternal line. All I was highlighting was the fact that Hawkwood did have family connections to those who had connections to the De Veres as well although at different times.

John Hawkwood: An English Mercenary in Fourteenth-Century Italy by William Caferro suggests that John Liston may have been an Uncle of Hawkwood.
John Liston was the, if so it would be a maternal Uncle. Sir John Liston had sons John and Thomas who fought at Crecy. Sir John Liston was married twice once to Maud and then to Eleanor. His son by Maud was John. Thomas may have been by Eleanor. That means either Eleanor or Maud could have been the sister of the mother of Hawkwood.
wjhonson
2017-05-24 15:47:24 UTC
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I'm speaking about your idea that De Vere and Hawkwood also derive from the same stock in a general sense.

All you really need is *one* De Vere or *one* Hawkwood to be the biological father, at any point in the line, to create this perception.

That is why Autosomal DNA really clarifies the line.
Dee Horn
2017-05-28 06:35:29 UTC
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I have Hawkwood and de Vere in my family tree. at the moment I am doing corrections on the Hawkwoods on my ancestry family tree

Dee Horn



On May 18, 2017, at 11:05 PM, ***@googlemail.com wrote:

I have just read the 2006 postings on Sir John Hawkwood which are interesting to me because they mention castle Hedingham and the De Veres, I trace my name back to the marriage of John Alliston and Rachel Fyrmyn in Sudbury 1606 and I think John was the son of John Alliston And Mary Payne from Castle Hedingham who married in Castle Hedingham 1577 ( the 1578 births page in ST Nicholas church have been destroyed so I cannot confirm ). When I did a DNA match both the De Vere and Liston names came up which following on from the earlier post does suggest that they Hawkwood, De Vere , Liston and now Alliston all had family connections. My Liston match had a time to common ancestor of between 600 and 900 years and he was from Edinburgh Scotland. The family is mentioned in the book https://archive.org/details/memoirsofmyances00mcca which says they came up down from Essex at the time of William I. Liston is a village near Sudbury and the Liston family held the manor there until the mid 1300's, They held it from De Vere.

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m***@googlemail.com
2017-05-29 17:35:58 UTC
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Post by Dee Horn
I have Hawkwood and de Vere in my family tree. at the moment I am doing corrections on the Hawkwoods on my ancestry family tree
Dee Horn
I have just read the 2006 postings on Sir John Hawkwood which are interesting to me because they mention castle Hedingham and the De Veres, I trace my name back to the marriage of John Alliston and Rachel Fyrmyn in Sudbury 1606 and I think John was the son of John Alliston And Mary Payne from Castle Hedingham who married in Castle Hedingham 1577 ( the 1578 births page in ST Nicholas church have been destroyed so I cannot confirm ). When I did a DNA match both the De Vere and Liston names came up which following on from the earlier post does suggest that they Hawkwood, De Vere , Liston and now Alliston all had family connections. My Liston match had a time to common ancestor of between 600 and 900 years and he was from Edinburgh Scotland. The family is mentioned in the book https://archive.org/details/memoirsofmyances00mcca which says they came up down from Essex at the time of William I. Liston is a village near Sudbury and the Liston family held the manor there until the mid 1300's, They held it from De Vere.
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Well done Dee, have you come across any connections to Listons as well?

Thanks

Mark

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